Submarines and the 'flanking' idea...

[Phalanx2000]

Ok, first off, I'm not much of a txt-file hacker so don't kill me with such... yet...

Why don't submarines have the ability to flank an opposing surface or submarine ship? I can easily imagine a wolf-pack of subs all firing torps at a target simultaneously. Is there a way around this limitation? I was so discouraged by that fact that I've not checked to see if a wolf-pack of nuclear subs or morays will do what I want (when I gained them later). Anybody know?

Packs of subs like that used to be the BANE of an opposing navy's existence. I just hate to see it non-functional....

[Carrion]

I don't think Subs would make very good flankers. They are very slow when submerged. At least the early subs. Not up to snuff with nuclear subs capabalities. But I think PT boats would be a good candidate for this catergory. But then again i can imagine any naval ship opening up on one target. Anybody remember the Bizmark? Half of the British navy bombarded that ship for hours till it finally sank.

[wheathin]

The flank attack only makes sense in the context of a combined fleet attack. But submarines don't work as well when they have to stay in constant contact with other fleet elements. The sub's biggest tactical advantage is stealth and unpredictability - being forced to communicate and follow specific attack orders limits the sub's effectiveness.

Soviet naval doctrine called for subs to support surface assets in this type of role, but that was because Soviet subs were loud, slow, and needed the support of surface ships and aviation to work. American subs have always been more effective when working alone.

The exception is the German wolf pack of WW2. Even there, however, the subs only coordinated with other subs prior to the raids. The attack itself was relatively uncoordinated, preventing any real flanking bonus.

[Phalanx2000]

That's interesting... I remember my history (though VERY foggy) as wolf-packs being effective, in fact deadly. But it makes sense that the coordination would be off.

So none of the submerged units in CTP2 flank, huh?

[wheathin]

The wolf pack was very deadly against lightly escorted convoys. In those conditions, even uncoordinated packs could savage the defenseless merchantmen.

Note that wolf packs were not used against single ships, and were only instituted when the allies started convoying and Germany was unable to sink as many ships.

Wolf packs themselves became substantially less effective as the allies perfected anti-sub tactics, and as technology gave the advantage to the convoys. Better sonar, more and faster destroyers, and most importantly, escort carriers and increased fighter cover from land bases took a horrendous toll on the U-boats after 1942.

[marc420]

Doesn't look like something that can be changed in a Txt file anyways. Although I may be wrong. I'm just learning what's in these text files, so I could easily be missing something.

This is in Units.txt

I checked the nuclear sub, and it has a unit category of Category UNIT_CATEGORY_UNDERSEA

Meanwhile the Knight unit has
Category UNIT_CATEGORY_FLANKER

Another unit I checke had UNIT_CATEGORY_ATTACKER

So it looks like "Undersea" is a seperate category from "Flanker" or "Attack" or "Defense" or "Ranged"

Otherwise I was going to try changing these and see how the game played with Subs getting the flank ability.

[Phalanx2000]

Well, that's cool. Hey, the update on naval tactics was worth it for me!!

I'll go look at those units.txt lines tonight and see what I can find...