Question to designers about limits

[Slax]

Activision people: Some mod makers are wondering if there are limits to the maximum number of techs, units, and wonders. Can you let us know any of these (or other) limits to modification of CTP II?

Also, can we modify or add Feats of Wonders?

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Light the fuse!

<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Slax (edited November 16, 2000).]</font>

[DarthVeda]

Well the limits are probably in a set array. Probably a multiple of 16. I'd suspect that they put it at about 8192 units (maybe as high as 32,768 but that sucks a lot of memory, especially with the array handling more arrays).

[TheLimey]

Not necessarily. There are lots of ways to skin a cat, and model a datastructure likewise. An array is one way, but not the only way, and theres certainly no way of knowing, just by looking at the game as is.

[Eternal]

You might not be able to get much out of the designers right now. With the game out they might have lots of scrambling to do finding problems users found and making patches.

[Atahualpa]

Is it still that maps have to be half as height as wide?

ATa

[St Swithin]

Ouch! Yeah, unfortunately, maps are still limited to 1x2. As far as I know, there is no set limit on the number of units, advances, improvements, or wonders, but there are a limited number of terrain types (I think it's 24). However, for all practical purposes, it would be unreasonable to expect the game to run well with 32,768 units, wonders, improvements and advances.

You can modify feats and wonders somewhat - i.e. how powerful they are, etc., in the text files - but using SLIC is really the only way to add effects. I'm working on documentation and examples, which I'll put on the site when I'm done.

[Mr Ogre]

The map is only limited to 2:1 ratios when y-wrap is turned on. For x-wrap only or flat maps, the only size restriction is that both dimensions have to be even numbers.

There's no practical limit I know of on the number of units or advances in the databases (That is, there's a limit, but you'd run out of memory hundreds of millions of entries before you hit it). There is a limit of 64 buildings and 64 wonders (same as CTP1). Those should be the only databases with such a limit. It doesn't have anything to do with arrays though, it's due to 64 bit integers being the largest size that's convenient to deal with.

[Drakenred]

quote: Originally posted by St Swithin on 11-16-2000 05:14 PM Ouch! Yeah, unfortunately, maps are still limited to 1x2. As far as I know, there is no set limit on the number of units, advances, improvements, or wonders, but there are a limited number of terrain types (I think it's 24). However, for all practical purposes, it would be unreasonable to expect the game to run well with 32,768 units, wonders, improvements and advances. You can modify feats and wonders somewhat - i.e. how powerful they are, etc., in the text files - but using SLIC is really the only way to add effects. I'm working on documentation and examples, which I'll put on the site when I'm done.

so it should be ok for us to:

>>Modify the Advance.Txt File to have as many Advances as we want, (and/or is their a Maximum limit to the number of Advances you would recomend?)

>Also are any of the Advances hardcoded to automaticaly cause certin functions(ala CIVII where the Radio advance (or its position) will autmaticaly alow you to build airports in cities becuase Airpports were handled by a specific module in the game?

>>Have more than the 70 individual Unit types Modled in the game?(to clarify can i for example Modify the Units.txt file to have more than the 70 units described in that file? for example, if i wanted to add light med and heavy Cruisers, battle cruisers,pre-dreadnaught Battleships, Dreadnaught, and super batleships, along with Jeep, Ligh and Med cariers?) and if so how many units do you think could be put in that file safley?

>>(? about max wonders- buildings was ansered, sorry i missed it,)
thanks

Drakenred


[This message has been edited by Drakenred (edited November 16, 2000).]

[Slax]

Thanks for that prompt, and straight-forward response, St. Swithin and Mr. Ogre. Nearly unlimited advances and units. Thats great!



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Light the fuse!

[DarthVeda]

quote: Originally posted by TheLimey on 11-16-2000 11:47 AM Not necessarily. There are lots of ways to skin a cat, and model a datastructure likewise. An array is one way, but not the only way, and theres certainly no way of knowing, just by looking at the game as is.

Civ-type games have typically done the unit limits in multiples of 16. In Civ2 it was 256 * 8 (256 for each civ, but not a limit per civ), so a total of 2048 units. That was the standard for a game written back in the days of 33 MHz processors and 8MB of RAM. It's quite possible that CtP2 can handle close to 16,384 units.

[TheLimey]

Comparing Civ2 programming to CtP1 or 2 programming is a big stretch. Only MrOgre et al could tell us for sure, or theoretically, you could 'prove' it by spending a few days in Cheat Mode...

[Locutus]

quote: Originally posted by Mr Ogre on 11-16-2000 05:37 PM There's no practical limit I know of on the number of units or advances in the databases (That is, there's a limit, but you'd run out of memory hundreds of millions of entries before you hit it). There is a limit of 64 buildings and 64 wonders (same as CTP1). Those should be the only databases with such a limit. It doesn't have anything to do with arrays though, it's due to 64 bit integers being the largest size that's convenient to deal with.

Mr Ogre,
If this is so, do you have any explanation/theory on why the latest versions of the MedMod have been so unstable and causing so much unexplained crashes (and why it's much worse for some people than for others)? It would be nice to know for when we start converting it to CtPII format (and for other modmakers too if they run into the same problem). It's large size is the only logical explanation I can come up with. Any ideas would be very useful.