You could build an Empire State Building after disconvering Corporation? What kind o

[Triphosphatase]

of bull is that? This is the stupidest thing I have ever seen. And its an improvement so any city could build it. This game has become way too America-centric.

[Ralf]

Just use your imagination and imagine something else. I used to do that with the Alpha Centauri space ship in Civ-2. I imagined that i "constructed" everlasting world peace here on earth instead.

No big deal.

In CTP-2 "the Gaia Controller opens the door to a true world utopia, free from want, conflict, scarcity, and strife".

Those who wants a space journey just have to imagine that instead.

[Dauphin]

I'm sure its a wonder, not a standard improvement.

[red_jon]

I'm sorry, but classing this building as a wonder is laughable. There are plenty of buildings bigger than the Empire State.

Yet they don't have the channel tunnel as a wonder, which is the first tunnel of its kind.

I'm not going to say any more, last time I mentioned that the original was too US-centric I had right-wing Americans who thought the entire world was made by their country on my back, claiming I insulted the States.

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...And if the British Commonwealth and its people live for a thousand years, man will still say "this was their finest hour"- Winston Churchill.

[ContradictioN]

true

I wouldn't consider a tall building to be a wonder or sydney oprah house to be a wonder, or a massive bridge

a wonder is something that seems impossible to complete

like landing on the moon, or building a city under the water, I wouldn't consider landing on mars a wonder, coz if you've already worked out how to land on the moon, then the process is somewhat similar for mars, but terraforming mars would be a wonder, or discovering cure for cancer, etc. really really big, important and seemingly impossible tasks.

[ContradictioN]

1 more thing,

by giving not-so-impossible tasks as a wonder to build, then you are degrading the meaning of a wonder, so you are lessening the feeling of completing something great

why do game designers not think of these things themselves? why do the ppl who don't make games have to!?!? aye!

[Slax]

quote: Originally posted by red_jon on 11-11-2000 09:40 AM I'm sorry, but classing this building as a wonder is laughable. There are plenty of buildings bigger than the Empire State. Yet they don't have the channel tunnel as a wonder, which is the first tunnel of its kind.

The Empire State building WAS the first skyscraper, and was the tallest building for quite a while. There have also been other long tunnels, too, and one day there may be longer ones than the channel tunnel.

Is it a wonder or an improvement? I agree it could be a wonder - although I hope it is balanced against new, non-American wonders, but I disagree with it being an improvement - for an improvement it should be just "Skyscrapper" or something.

[This message has been edited by Slax (edited November 11, 2000).]

[Dida]

Building the Empire State Building Wonder will higher your reputation among other Civs? I don't see how that building is related to international relationship. If the building decrease city size unhappyness by 5 point than it'll make sense.

[DarkOrder]

It is a new step in engineering. People come from all over the world to see it. It is something to admire. I think this is what they were thinking. Like I said, it is not that powerful of a wonder. There are a lot of other wonders. Each age has wonders associated with it. Ancient (no US wonders), Renaissance (no US wonders), Modern (finally, some US wonders including the Emp. State Building), Genetic (not really US wonders, more advanced), and Diamond (way too advanced to be considered US). The US plays its biggest role during the modern age. I guess you could say everything is US biased, but it would be hard to prove to me. The World Peace Center (gives an embasy in every empire) may be similar to the UN. Is that a US wonder? I think of it as more global. Sure they could have put the Eifel (sp?) tower in, but it was not the first sky scraper. oh well (sigh).

[Triphosphatase]

Your right, it is a wonder. But it is still outrageous.

[Pyaray]

A comment about being "US-centric". I can't really say if the game is too "US-centric" or not. But if it is, you have to consider why. The game was made in the US, and for the most part our team is not a bunch of world travelers. I wasn't there for this, but imagine a group of people, all american, who are sitting in a room trying to think up XX wonders. What are the odds of them thinking up the things that are closer to their homes, or something they've seen, rather than things from around the world? Even if they are trying to be global in nature, odds are they don't know as many "international" major events as local ones. It's not that anyone is trying to "slam" other cultures, it's just that the game was designed by people who know local things better than "foreign" things. I am fairly certain that they tried to make things balanced and global in nature, but when the entire world is your critic, it's impossible to satisfy everyone.

Pyaray

[Sprayber]

Geez people, don't get too excited about this, I agree that this might not be the most awe inspiring wonder in the game but it is apart of it. And I don't see where you see that America has taken over the game. We don't force our culture on anyone. It's not our fault that our way of life is so attractive. And for the record when I play the game it is usually as the English or Germans because I can't really see America as a civ all by itself. But we are not out to make ourself as one.

[DarkOrder]

The Empire State building is a wonder, and not that "great" of one at that. All it does is increase your regard with other empires. You can get access to it in the Modern Era. There are a lot of "Wordly" wonders though. Ramayana, The Great Wall, The Pyramids, Globe Sat, etc. The game is not USA centric, but it was made by Americans so you have to give them a little leeway.



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Smooshies

[Paulypav]

Empire State Building was the first major skyscraper, however I don't feel it is a world wonder. I am from New York and think its a great building, but I don't see at as a wonder and definitely not a city improvement.

As I recall, us Americans did not blast you, most of us agreed that we are over-represented. However, it is important to note that the game designers are from the United States. I think the discussion came too late in the development phase for them to change their course. The game is definitely too focused on American advances and wonders, but then again the U.S. has been one of the leading powers in the modern era.

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“The American people have now spoken, but it’s going to take a little while to determine exactly what
they said.” — President Clinton

[deleted]

Talk about a non-issue.