Announcement

**Tiberius** · November 8, 2000, 05:32

I'm with you, Center.

HOTSEAT PLEASE !!!

**Mike the Nuke** · November 8, 2000, 23:06

Okay, Activision. You work with this site and communicate with this site. You claim to be for the customer, now back up the claim. I have now been on at least three message sections, one of which has the most messages of any. The biggest controversy (other than the standard bug thing, as occurs with almost all software nowadays) is the decision by Activision programers to drop the PBEM and Hot Seat options (> * Civs was another, but it atleast had an aswer other than the "unfixable bugs" respoinse. It appears a lot of people, like myself, looked forwarded to the new game only to be discouraged by the decision to drop these items. Mr Pyraya's answer that "he doesn't know or isn't sure if they will try to create a patch to bring back hot seat" is insufficient. You either are going to continue trying to implement it or you are not! The first game was improved by several patches (as per JBS), I do not believe I ever saw 3 of the user patches, but I did down load the 1.1 and 1.2 patches from Activision. I did not suffer the 'bugs problems' suffered by others, as I never saw the game until it had been out awhile, so many things were probably 'fixed' before I got it(also the patches were available shortly after I purchased the game). What causes the bug with Hot Seat and PBEM? It's a turn based game. The only thing I can figure is that the bug(s) are in relationship to an incompatibility between Hot Seat/PBEM and the new AI. If this is true, why not make a patch that allows these options without AI's, allowing only human players in these options? Later a patch or upgrade could be included to include AI's with Hot Seat/PBEM option, if these 'bugs' can be fixed. With as much message traffic as there has been concerning this topic, Activision should see that they have their hands full. Never has a good answer been given for the dropping of Hot Seat/PBEM, except that they had bugs that could not be repaired in time for the games 'scheduled' release date. At least with the >8 Civs deal, an answer was given based on facts other than we can't fixed the bugs. Theswe facts at least made sense in that more Civs would require more system memory and a higher, more expensive system to play teh game. I believe JBS in his assumptions that the game code is bad allowing for bugs when the game is stressed with options like Hotseat/PBEM. By the way, if Hotseat and PBEM are bugged, why is the game playable over the internet without bugs or is it? In that mode of play the game would have to wait for responses from various sources away from the host computer. Other than the internet game being played over the 'lines', hotseat on the same computer and PBEM (email over the lines) being a delay awaiting response (email), what are the differences between them? All three modes are versions of multiplayer, are they not? Or is the Multiplayer game over the internet just another game of human vs computer where we are 'fooled' into believing that we are actually playing another human over the internet. During internet play, when a 'human' leaves the game, an AI takes over for that player (automatically). There is lots of info that should be released to us, not just the reviews of a few who receive 'free' games to try.

It would also be nice if the CTP-1 game received more patches. Yes, there is the something for 'nothing' argument, etc (especially if the cutomers who support the products are considered as 'nothing'). Sell them as upgrades like they did in The Sims (The Sims Livin' Large). Heck you could get upto $20 for the improvements. The Sims did. You could then include user improvements, better units, units with corrected power values and other options. You take surveys over this site. Expansion packs, as they are often called, could pop up for quite a while. It would probably make CTP-1 customers happy. But most important, it would show that you are willing to provide long term support for your products, especially those as popular as CTP-1 and CTP-2 (which you expect to be popular). And NO. CTP-2 DOES NOT COUNT AS THAT UPGRADE! You left popular options out of the game. Upgrades improve options, not delete them.

Mark G: Maybe you should test the muliplayer mode out. Personally, I could care less about screen graphics in the reports, I want to know the real important stuff. Photos and pictures are icing, the cake would be nice. The intensions are nice, but try to break the game and find the flaws, not advertise it.

**Pyaray** · November 9, 2000, 03:20

quote:

Originally posted by Mike the Nuke on 11-08-2000 10:06 PM
but it atleast had an aswer other than the "unfixable bugs" respoinse.
...
Mr Pyraya's answer that "he doesn't know or isn't sure if they will try to create a patch to bring back hot seat" is insufficient. You either are going to continue trying to implement it or you are not!
...
What causes the bug with Hot Seat and PBEM? It's a turn based game.
...
Never has a good answer been given for the dropping of Hot Seat/PBEM, except that they had bugs that could not be repaired in time for the games 'scheduled' release date.

A few issues to address here. First of all, I am now quite certain I should not have used the word "bugs". There were problems for sure, but it's not like we don't know what the problems are, we do. We are positive that it is isolated to that part of the game, no question at all.

Next, the internal data structures of this game are just that, internal. We don't release information about how the internals of the game works. This is not an Open Source game, it is proprietary. Therefore, there is only so much information that we can explain about what the problems are. I already explained that it had to do with when certain events occured. The reason this is not an issue over net play is because all players are always present, and therefore the events can occur at any time. In a HotSeat game, if an event occurs for the player who isn't currently playing, it causes a problem. Same with PBEM, they both basically work identically, except in one case it generates a file to be e-mailed, and in the other it does not. That's about as detailed as I'm willing to get, because this information is internal to Activision.

And finally, it's not the programmers that decide how much time we get to spend adding features to a shipped game. It is up to the people who sign our paychecks how much they are willing to pay for. And as much as I like this game, and am proud of what I have done on it, I don't think I would have done it without that paycheck. Those people probably don't read this forum, can't say for sure. And they have more than just CTP2 to worry about, Activision makes a lot of games. And sooner or later they're going to want the programmers working on the next game rather than the last game. The people who come to this forum and post here, like myself, really would like to do everything and have an unlimited budget and drive ferrari's (not related, but you should see my point). But we can't. We come here and post and try to explain why things are the way they are, but it's not going to change. In a perfect world every feature that everyone wanted would have been in the game. Unfortunately this world isn't perfect, it's just the best one we have.

I am truly sorry you find my explanations "insufficient". But they are probably the best you're going to get, at least out of me. Coming and posting on this forum is not part of my job, I do it because I want to.

Pyaray

**MarkG** · November 9, 2000, 04:09

quote:

Originally posted by Mike the Nuke on 11-08-2000 10:06 PM
I want to know the real important stuff. Photos and pictures are icing, the cake would be nice. The intensions are nice, but try to break the game and find the flaws, not advertise it.

(i just quote that and add some bolding, no reply )
[This message has been edited by MarkG (edited November 09, 2000).]

**Center** · November 9, 2000, 05:04

Pyaray Thanks for a reply to the subject. I do not know how to get a hold of the guys who cut your check and decide if Hotseat or PBEM will be added later. Will you ask them if they will for me?

I would love to drive a Ferrari but hotseat will do.

Will it be possible to add the new units from CTP2 to my CTP hotseat capable version.

**Pyaray** · November 9, 2000, 05:41

quote:

Originally posted by Center on 11-09-2000 04:04 AM
Will it be possible to add the new units from CTP2 to my CTP hotseat capable version.

Wow, that's a really good question. I'm afraid I have no idea. While I know the file formats for CTP2 reasonably well, I don't know the CTP1 file format at all. I never did any mods to CTP1. I'm certain somebody will try and do that eventually, hopefully they will post results.

Pyaray

**MarkG** · November 9, 2000, 05:58

quote:

Originally posted by Center on 11-09-2000 04:04 AM
Will it be possible to add the new units from CTP2 to my CTP hotseat capable version.

well, the units sprites are still .spr files, but i have no idea if the format has changed

**lev** · November 9, 2000, 11:21

Pyaray, thanks for all the good communication.

If Activision can add hotseat and/or PBEM in the patch, I urge them to do so!

And speaking of sprites, are we gonna get a sprite editor tool like we got for CtP1?

Announcement

Hotseat please

Hotseat please

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