11th Turn Chat (From Turn 85 in the year 2300BC)

[MrBaggins]

Area around Wels after we captured (no defenders)
2240BC

[mapfi]

Where is the savegame, some info on the current status and the log??!!!

[Martin Gühmann]

Good question, mapfi. Unfortunatly I wasn't able to reach Apolyton after the chat even if the I was able to ping Apolyton, so it has to be posted now:

<MartinGuehmann> 11TH TURN CHAT STARTED
<MartinGuehmann> OK what is our first thing to do, I think we should do the diplomacy first
<MartinGuehmann> So what about Israel?
<Tamerlin> OK, I think we should first ask a map
<MartinGuehmann> A map exange, and if necessary threat them?
<Tamerlin> Yes, do you want an order?
<MartinGuehmann> I guess I have an order.
<Tamerlin>
<MartinGuehmann> So I am doing it.
<MartinGuehmann> I forgot what should be the tone?
<Tamerlin> Friendly/Equal
<MartinGuehmann> OK
<Tamerlin> It has been rejected on my comp
<MartinGuehmann> Well first the offer, then the request and after the threat they accepted.
<Tamerlin> Threaten... accepted also
<Tamerlin> I think we should now expell the Settler
<MartinGuehmann> Yes
<Tamerlin>
<MartinGuehmann> Yeah doing it.
<Tamerlin> Done!
<MartinGuehmann> Yeah, done, too!
<Tamerlin> India?
<MartinGuehmann> Yeah, Indea, the same procedure as Israel?
<MartinGuehmann> Or some gold first as they are closer?
<Tamerlin> We should first offer them 100 gold as it was suggested by Locutus, they are not very friendly.
<MartinGuehmann> OK some gold first, and then next turn the map exchange?
<Tamerlin> Yes
<MartinGuehmann> ok, giving them 100 gold
<MartinGuehmann> Same tone as Israel?
<Tamerlin> Yes
<MartinGuehmann> OK, India got 100 gold.
<MartinGuehmann> So that should be the diplomatic part of that turn.
<Tamerlin> Done, btw, how to get rid off the CtP2 chat windows...
<Tamerlin> And yes to your answer.
<MartinGuehmann> press enter while it is empty
<Tamerlin> Thanks
* mrbaggins has joined #lemuria
<mrbaggins> hi
<Tamerlin> Hi MrBaggins!
<mrbaggins> how are you, Tamerlin?
<MartinGuehmann> Hi MrB, fine you are here.
<Tamerlin> Fine and you?
<mrbaggins> hi Martin
<mrbaggins> very well
<mrbaggins> yep... pleased I could make it too
<mrbaggins> I finished reinstalling and actually have CTP2 running all the necessary mods... and loading the game
<mrbaggins> which is kinda necessary
<Tamerlin> We have just started a few minutes ago, map exchange accepted by Israel after threat, Israelian Settler expelled and 100 gold given to India...
<MartinGuehmann> So we already started, as the constitutions says: "The President shall physically play the game on a regular and scheduled basis whenever possible and post the save and a complete report of the game events to the forum." as I think we have all necessary orders we can continue.
<MartinGuehmann> So MrB what are your orders for the build queue of mapfipolis, alternative build order like suggested in the 10th turn chat thread?
<mrbaggins> yes
<mrbaggins> just a second and let me confirm that
<MartinGuehmann> OK I filled it with three more units, so it contains now A H A H
<Tamerlin> Have you already changed the build queue, I would have to update my game
<MartinGuehmann> I already did it but wait for MrBaggins reply
<Tamerlin> What are the changes?
<mrbaggins> alternate at both Colonia Locuta and Mapfipolis
<Tamerlin> Replacing current build queue or added to them?
<mrbaggins> ensure that Graz has 3 hoplites at the head of the queue
<mrbaggins> replacing
<MartinGuehmann> added a Hopelite an Archer and a Hoplite
<MartinGuehmann> For Graz that should be true I check it...
<Tamerlin> OK, A H A H is the final build queue...
<MartinGuehmann> Three Hoplites in Graz' build queue
<MartinGuehmann> Yes Tamerlin
<MartinGuehmann> So MrBaggins...
<mrbaggins> go on
<MartinGuehmann> OK, the unit moves...
<Tamerlin> I already have 3 H in Graz, does it mean I add three new ones for a total of 6?
<mrbaggins> no
<Tamerlin> OK
<mrbaggins> just ensure there are 3
<Tamerlin> Done!
<MartinGuehmann> One warrior from mapfipolis should be taken to explore the South
<MartinGuehmann> I already seperated it from the other units and called it Goodsight
<mrbaggins> hang on one sec.. just catching up
<MartinGuehmann> Pedrunn's order for it is one quare South
<MartinGuehmann> Ok, ...
<Tamerlin> The separated unit is a H it should be a warrior...
<MartinGuehmann> Yes, but that uit was build last turn, so I didn't done it last turn chat, I did it before this turn chat
<MartinGuehmann> But you can leave the Hopelite seperated
<Tamerlin> OK, I do it!
<Tamerlin> OK
<Tamerlin> Unit moved
<MartinGuehmann> Not yet, but it goes to the South
<mrbaggins> so CL and mapfipolis Archer/Hoplite/Archer/Hoplite ok?
<Tamerlin> Yes
<MartinGuehmann> Changed the build queue of CL
<mrbaggins> hmmm
<MartinGuehmann> so any other build queue to change?
<mrbaggins> maybe that should be archer/archer/hoplite/archer/hoplite
<mrbaggins> for CL
<mrbaggins> it has a bunch of hoplites
<mrbaggins> that will even it out
<Tamerlin> OK
<MartinGuehmann> as first item another archer, so ok
<mrbaggins> no changes to other build queues
<mrbaggins> just another archer at the head of CL
<Tamerlin> Done!
<mrbaggins> cool
<mrbaggins> ok
<mrbaggins> anything else we need to do this turn?
<MartinGuehmann> However we should them move two Hopelites to Pedrunnia according Pedrunn's orders anyway
<MartinGuehmann> Well, let's move all units first and see then again
<Tamerlin> OK
<MartinGuehmann> I disabled the automated turn cycle already
<mrbaggins> right
<MartinGuehmann> So the warrior of mapfipolis: one South
<mrbaggins> done here
<Tamerlin> done
<mrbaggins> do you want me to do screencaps, btw?
<mrbaggins> i'll just save them as we do and post them later
<MartinGuehmann> Yes, if you like
<Tamerlin> It would be great
<MartinGuehmann> The next unit to move is a hopelite from mapfipois to CL
<Tamerlin> Done
<MartinGuehmann> Done, and now two Hopelites from CL to Pedrunnia
<MartinGuehmann> Done
<mrbaggins> done
<Tamerlin> done
<MartinGuehmann> So two hopelites from Pedrunnia to Graz
<mrbaggins> so question for you guys
<MartinGuehmann> Ok
<mrbaggins> forget it... its ok
<Tamerlin> ok
<MartinGuehmann> OK let's move the two Hopelites from Pedrunnia to Graz
<Tamerlin> done
<MartinGuehmann> OK done, I used the river route
<Tamerlin> So do I, default route proposed
<MartinGuehmann> Shouldn't be a big difference
<mrbaggins> fine by me
<mrbaggins> done
<MartinGuehmann> So the next army to move or not to move is the size nine stack near H Town
<mrbaggins> i'll screencap
<MartinGuehmann> Yup
<mrbaggins> ahh...
<MartinGuehmann> from now on it is called Lemuforce, and the units inside Graz: Graz defence
<mrbaggins> ok
<Tamerlin> OK, our next target should be Wels so I guess the Lemuforce should move to the south I am correct about Wels location
<mrbaggins> no
<mrbaggins> Wels is to the north
<mrbaggins> on the river
<MartinGuehmann> The Lemuforce should stand still for two turns I think
<Tamerlin>
<mrbaggins> directly NE of Pressburg
<mrbaggins> thats ok by me
<MartinGuehmann> Two units the wounded ones of it should be moved to H Town for restoration
<mrbaggins> I am in favor of moving it earlier
<mrbaggins> do you think we need 9 units for Wels?
<mrbaggins> if not... why not move one of the wounded units to Graz instead
<Tamerlin> The only town I have to the North is Linz
<mrbaggins> it will get the (more vulnerable) city up to speed quicker
<mrbaggins> you see the gap in the borders?
<MartinGuehmann> Well we could reach Wels quicker
<mrbaggins> if we don't need the 9th in the stack, why not just leave him in Graz, ASAP?
<MartinGuehmann> In Pedrunns plan we need 8 units the two Hopelites should be healed in Graz
<MartinGuehmann> So we could replace it
<mrbaggins> fine by me
<MartinGuehmann> Of course it should be healed in H Town
<Tamerlin> ok
<mrbaggins> so move the 2 units to HTown
<MartinGuehmann> So I move the wounded units to H Town
<Tamerlin> Sorry to bother you again with you but I don't see Wels on my map
<mrbaggins> its not shown
<mrbaggins> but you can see it by the abscence of the border
<MartinGuehmann> Yup move the cursor over the orange square
<mrbaggins> walk 5 squares ne from Pressburg and one square N
<mrbaggins> thats where Wels is
<Tamerlin> Move done... ok for wels
<Tamerlin> OK I confounded North with South for a while, sorry... so does we move Lemuforce along the river to reach Wels?
<MartinGuehmann> By the way MrBaggins do you see also the Hebrew settler near Wels?
<mrbaggins> yes
<mrbaggins> thats affirmative
<Tamerlin> Yes
<MartinGuehmann> Yes
<MartinGuehmann> So move Lemuforce two North West, that should it be
<Tamerlin> OK
<MartinGuehmann> and add the hopelite from H Town then to the stack
<Tamerlin> Done
<MartinGuehmann> OK done a size 8 stack goes to Wels
<MartinGuehmann> So let's take a look on the build queue of CL
<MartinGuehmann> I think we should now remove the Archer from the front of the build queue
<Tamerlin> A-A-H-A-H
<mrbaggins> let me check
<mrbaggins> i'll refresh the orders
<mrbaggins> i think they'll be a couple of changes
<mrbaggins> based on what we are doing
<mrbaggins> ok
<mrbaggins> remove a hoplite from Graz queue
<Tamerlin> unchanged?
<mrbaggins> remove an archer from CL queue
<mrbaggins> add an archer to HTown queue
<mrbaggins> (not replace, insert at the front)
<mrbaggins> that should even everything out, based on the orders we are going for
<mrbaggins> (or remove from the front of the queue
<MartinGuehmann> Ok H Town queue now: A A H A
<mrbaggins> yes
<mrbaggins> Graz queue
<mrbaggins> H H
<mrbaggins> and CL queue A H A H
<MartinGuehmann> Both queues are identic
<MartinGuehmann> so any additions ro Graz' queue?
<Tamerlin> OK for me
<MartinGuehmann> ro -> to
<mrbaggins> not for now
<Tamerlin> I suppose the units in Graz should be grouped and fortified
<mrbaggins> we have a few turns to go... then i'll add based on the situation
<MartinGuehmann> OK that should be all, end turn now?
<Tamerlin> Yes
<MartinGuehmann> Of course fortify them
<Tamerlin> done, end turn?
<MartinGuehmann> So, END TURN 85
<Tamerlin> Race for a wonder and India proposing a map we should of course accept...

Session Start: Sun Mar 02 23:20:50 2003
Session Ident: #Lemuria
* Now talking in #Lemuria
* Topic is 'CtP2 Democracy Game'
* Set by Locutus on Wed Feb 26 00:58:10
<mrbaggins> wb MartinGuehmann
<MartinGuehmann> Well I am back
<mrbaggins> did you crash?
<Tamerlin> I didn't noticed MrB
<MartinGuehmann> Once I hit the end turn button my computer hang
<mrbaggins> ack...
<mrbaggins> no save?
<Tamerlin>
<MartinGuehmann> The only solution was to hit the restet button on my computer
<mrbaggins> ok
<MartinGuehmann> No save but that shouldn't be a problem
<mrbaggins> not really
<mrbaggins> you do need to replay 2300BC I guess
<MartinGuehmann> Yes but that shouldn't be such a huge problem, evrything should be clear
<MartinGuehmann> so I start CTP2 now and quicksave before I it the end turn button
<Tamerlin> OK
<mrbaggins> ok...
<mrbaggins> sounds wise
<Tamerlin> I do it every turn
<mrbaggins> so... Tamerlin
<mrbaggins> question for you as MoD
<mrbaggins> I want to found a city using a settler
<Tamerlin> About the Wels attack?
<Tamerlin> Oh!
<MartinGuehmann> So I moved now every unit
<MartinGuehmann> Now I have to get the build queue right
<Tamerlin> Do we have a settler ready?
<mrbaggins> we will
<MartinGuehmann> Build order of CL was A H A H right?
<mrbaggins> yes
<MartinGuehmann> Same for mapfipolis?
<MartinGuehmann> And for H Town: A A H A
<Tamerlin> yes
<mrbaggins> yes
<MartinGuehmann> And two hopelites in Graz
<mrbaggins> yes
<MartinGuehmann> How much do you have in your game?
<MartinGuehmann> I need to know if I already gave the gold to India
<Tamerlin> 1302
<MartinGuehmann> So I must have give them the gold
<MartinGuehmann> So I can end turn again
<MartinGuehmann> Well in a case of a map exange offer I will accept it
<Tamerlin> yes
<MartinGuehmann> OK END TURN 85 (again)
<MartinGuehmann> OK we know now the map of India
<MartinGuehmann> OK moving the warrior of mapfipolis (called now Goodsight) to the South
<Tamerlin> OK
<MartinGuehmann> Done, units arrived in CL and Pedrunnia
<Tamerlin> done
<MartinGuehmann> Next issure is the Lemurforce, I think it should be moved along the river to Wels
<Tamerlin> Yes
<mrbaggins> yes
<MartinGuehmann> Moved the stack
<Tamerlin> Done
<MartinGuehmann> And grouped the new Archer in H Town into the defender army
<Tamerlin> Done
<MartinGuehmann> The two Hopelites from Pedrunnia were moved automaticly along the river and encountered a Barbarian warrior
<MartinGuehmann> they can't be moved anymore
<mrbaggins> where?
<Tamerlin> No barbs for me
<Tamerlin> My Hoplites are on the crops tile though, this was the automatic move proposed.
<MartinGuehmann> Well, we have to ignore the Barb this turn anyway.
<MartinGuehmann> Well I moved them along the river, so that is the difference
* mapfi has joined #lemuria
<MartinGuehmann> OK, nothing left so far I can see
<MartinGuehmann> Hi mapfi
<Tamerlin> Let see what happens, I would use the cheat menu if something is wrong, hi Mapfi
<mrbaggins> i moved them along the river and dont see them
<mapfi> hi everyone
<MartinGuehmann> No cheating here
<Tamerlin> But I am not playing the official game, you are, it is a matter of consistency for my game...
<MartinGuehmann> Well, I would now end the turn, or should I do a screenie, before
<mapfi> just stopping by to see if anything was going on since the forum doesn't tell - haven't really got time - pity you're only three
<Tamerlin> I am sure mapfi would appreciate a screenshot...
<MartinGuehmann> OK, doing it
<Tamerlin> About a settler and a place to settle, I think our southern warrior will tell us if there is something to settle anymore MrBaggins.
<mrbaggins> i can still see a spot
<Tamerlin> Near the potato SE of Graz?
<MartinGuehmann> Screenshot posted
<Tamerlin> Cities would be too close.
* Zaphod has joined #lemuria
<MartinGuehmann> Hi Zaphod
<Zaphod> hi folks
<Zaphod> am i too late?
<MartinGuehmann> No
<Zaphod> too early? ;-)
<Tamerlin> Hi Zaphod
<Tamerlin> Nor too early nor too late...
<MartinGuehmann> OK, I think we should continue
<Tamerlin> End turn?
<MartinGuehmann> Turn 86 every unit is mobved
<MartinGuehmann> so any new proposal
<MartinGuehmann> any build queue changes?
<Zaphod> any major event so far?
<MartinGuehmann> Well we got the map of India and of Israel
<Zaphod> :-) is there a screen somewhere?
<MartinGuehmann> We threatened Israel and India offered it
<Tamerlin> We are moving to attack Wels, maps, barbs between Pedrunnia and Graz... Martin has just posted a screenshot.
<MartinGuehmann> Screenies about the new maps not yet, MrBaggins wanted to post some.
<MartinGuehmann> So end turn now?
<Zaphod> ic
<Zaphod> who's doing which job at the moment?
<Tamerlin> I am Locutus delegate though now mapfi is here he should be delegate as he is first in the list as far as I remember...
<mrbaggins> hi
<mrbaggins> no queue changes
<mrbaggins> i could do screen caps but where are these barbarians?
<mrbaggins> on the river?
<MartinGuehmann> OK, I posted the minimap
<Tamerlin> south of the river I suppose
<MartinGuehmann> Tamerlin, you should read Locutus post about delegates in the Government announcement thread again
<Zaphod> hm, still a lot of lands (or seas?) unknown to the south
<Tamerlin> I have just read it again, it's all right
<MartinGuehmann> OK, I think we should now end the turn, so any objection?
<Tamerlin> no
<mrbaggins> fine by me
<MartinGuehmann> OK, END TURN 86 and this time I save before

[Martin Gühmann]

<MartinGuehmann> The Barbarians disappeared
<MartinGuehmann> So I think I should move the stack on the river now to Graz
<mrbaggins> ok
<mrbaggins> how far do they end up?
<Tamerlin> They never appeared on my comp... Aristotle's Lyceum launched by the Turks. And yes for the units
<mrbaggins> how many squares from Graz?
<MartinGuehmann> I think two but CTP2 just crashed again.
<MartinGuehmann> But this time I have the autosave and teh quick save
<Tamerlin> Two for me, in Graz next turn... Aaargh!
<mrbaggins> ahhh
<MartinGuehmann> So I restart my computer again
* Disconnected
Session Close: Mon Mar 03 00:00:20 2003

Session Start: Mon Mar 03 00:07:30 2003
Session Ident: #Lemuria
* Now talking in #Lemuria
* Topic is 'CtP2 Democracy Game'
* Set by Locutus on Wed Feb 26 00:58:10
<MartinGuehmann> Well I am back
<MartinGuehmann> the game is restarted
<Zaphod> wb mr president
<mrbaggins> yep
<MartinGuehmann> unfortunatly the Barbarian moved this time in directon of Graz
<MartinGuehmann> So let's play on
<mrbaggins> ok... so where is it in relation to Graz?
<Tamerlin> Just in case Martin reload slic before ending the turn it has helped me solve a recent problem with a game file.
<MartinGuehmann> Well that tile it was a blue death as alt tabbed between CTP2 an mIRC
<MartinGuehmann> I hope the culprit is Mozilla 1.3a
<MartinGuehmann> so I use better next time Netscape 4.78
<MartinGuehmann> OK we have now our units
<mrbaggins> right
<MartinGuehmann> Lemur force is on the river towards Graz
<Tamerlin> Yes
<mrbaggins> move 2 towards Wels
<mapfi> well - hope you move along some more -gotta go
<MartinGuehmann> I think we should move it towards Wels
<MartinGuehmann> Yes Wels
* mapfi has quit IRC (Quit: Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com))
<mrbaggins> should be 2 tiles south of Wels, right?
<Zaphod> how big is our attack force?
<mrbaggins> 8
<mrbaggins> 4 h 4a
<MartinGuehmann> If the automove is already executed then Yes
<Tamerlin> German settler south east of Lemuforce
<mrbaggins> right
<MartinGuehmann> I have a German settler West of the Glass good
<mrbaggins> where can you move the units heading to graz up to?
<MartinGuehmann> I can move the two units to the tile west of Graz
<MartinGuehmann> the South Western tile is blocked by the Barbarian Warrior's ZOC
<mrbaggins> you should do so then
<MartinGuehmann> OK I move them to the quare West of Graz
<MartinGuehmann> Done
<MartinGuehmann> Goodsight is left
<mrbaggins> sw?
<MartinGuehmann> I would move it South to the border with India
<Tamerlin> yes
<MartinGuehmann> This way we would reveal most of the unknown tiles
<mrbaggins> but we arre moving into a dead end
<mrbaggins> we need to explore sw not s
<mrbaggins> we can't move over the border, anyway
<Tamerlin> We will then move it to the west, we need to now what is close to our borders
<mrbaggins> sw is a good compromise
<MartinGuehmann> Well S we would reveal more tiles
<Tamerlin> Agreed
<mrbaggins> either way is fine by me
<mrbaggins> your call Tamerlin
<MartinGuehmann> If we move two tiles SW then we are there as if we move one South and then one West
<Tamerlin> South
<MartinGuehmann> So I go South
* mrbaggins nods
<MartinGuehmann> Zaphod?
<Zaphod> since i have no current map, i have no opinion on that question
<MartinGuehmann> OK it is south now
<Tamerlin> OK
<mrbaggins> where are the barbs... i'll do a screencap
<mrbaggins> due south of graz?
<Zaphod> but speaking generally, i think there is no need to rush exploration too much, better to see all i a few turn more
<MartinGuehmann> The Barbs are South SouthWest of Graz
<mrbaggins> ssw
<mrbaggins> ok
<Zaphod> graz is still defended by 1h 4a?
<Tamerlin> 5 units Thailandese stack SW of the tea tile near our warrior in the south
<Tamerlin> Yes
<MartinGuehmann> Yes Tamerlin SW SW of the warrior
<Tamerlin> Yep, and one H will be ready in Graz next turn Zaphod
<Zaphod> so that lonesome barb shoudln't be a problem, unless he begins to pillage
<mrbaggins> ok... let me post a screenie then
<Zaphod> :-)
<MartinGuehmann> Yep
<MartinGuehmann> By the way I lowered the food slider one notch so taht our cities can grow faster
<Tamerlin> OK
<MartinGuehmann> So all units are moved
<MartinGuehmann> End turn?
<Tamerlin> Wels seems undefended, I don't have the crossed swords when I order the Lemuforce to move in Wels... yes, end turn!
<MartinGuehmann> I think we only see the swords if we can see the city
<MartinGuehmann> So MRBaggins end turn?
<Tamerlin> No, I have tested it by putting the mouse on Dusseldorf...
<Zaphod> uhoh, don't let the germans know that ;-)
<Tamerlin>
<MartinGuehmann> No crossed sword on Pilsen, Colongne, and Villach
<MartinGuehmann> All these cities aren't shown as icon on the map
<MartinGuehmann> We see this next turn
<MartinGuehmann> So end turn?
<Zaphod> no objections
<Tamerlin> Martin, Zaphod is busy posting a screenshot, the Austrians are perhaps at war with another nation and have removed their units. OK for end of turn.
<Zaphod> no, i'm not busy
<mrbaggins> yes
<MartinGuehmann> END TURN 87
<mrbaggins> zaphod is posting a screenie?
* mrbaggins smiles
<mrbaggins> i just put together a composite
<Zaphod> i could post a screenie of my current cradle game, if you want me to ;-)
<MartinGuehmann> OK, the Barbarian was killed ny an Austrian Samurai
<MartinGuehmann> ny -> by
<mrbaggins> ok
<MartinGuehmann> The Thai stack is now West of the tea good
<mrbaggins> so... we can attack Wels now?
<MartinGuehmann> Yes
<MartinGuehmann> So I move the stack one towards Wels
<Tamerlin> Austrian Hoplite west of Graz, Barbarians (2 units) NE>NE of Warrior Goodsight, ok for Thai stack.
<Tamerlin> Attack Wels?
<mrbaggins> ok
<MartinGuehmann> Wels is a size 2 city and is undefended
<MartinGuehmann> So march in
<mrbaggins> agreed
<MartinGuehmann> Extend empire?
<mrbaggins> yes
<Zaphod> y
<mrbaggins> completely unimproved
<Tamerlin> Agreed, btw I have cross swords over Troppau
<mrbaggins> just the city walls
<MartinGuehmann> Yeah we see Troppau on the map
<mrbaggins> so...
<Tamerlin> Do we change the settings in Wels?
<mrbaggins> lets disband it and get the people moving to the new site
<mrbaggins> escorted by this 8 stack
<Zaphod> is there a new site chosen?
<mrbaggins> the suggestion from much earlier, that is still available
<Zaphod> how many farms/etc. are there around wels?
<mrbaggins> is the site to the east of the potato
<mrbaggins> just to the south
<mrbaggins> no farms or improvement around Wels
<Tamerlin> No it's north of H Town
<Zaphod> well, i for sure could need a screen or a savegame to say anything
<mrbaggins> ok
<mrbaggins> captured... and about to post
<MartinGuehmann> Disband or not disband, that is a good question
<Tamerlin> I don't think we should disband Wels, we are desperately in need of cities when we could settle the potato site later.
<Zaphod> i agree
<mrbaggins> ok
<mrbaggins> is posted
<Zaphod> thanks
<mrbaggins> right... here is the situation
<mrbaggins> if we keep Wels
<mrbaggins> we need to leave these defenders here
<mrbaggins> at least some
<MartinGuehmann> Well and your poll is not closed and 2 pro disbanding and 1 contra disbanding is not enough to decide
<mrbaggins> we don't get to take them back to Pedrunnia to possibly disband for the wonder
<mrbaggins> we only maybe get to take 4 back
<mrbaggins> the site is really poor
<Tamerlin> No, an Hoplite will be ended in one turn in Wels, we don't need to let a unit
<Zaphod> if we leave 4 there that will be enough
<mrbaggins> any majority is enough
<Tamerlin> IMO, We need our units elsewhere let Wels build its own defenders.
<MartinGuehmann> BTW how much give a disbanded unit
<Zaphod> that site is poor yet, but it can develop. look at all these hills waiting to be mined
<mrbaggins> it takes 1 turn off of the wonder... basically
<mrbaggins> so 8 units... 8 turns
<mrbaggins> those hills will be very costly
<MartinGuehmann> Another point to keep Wels is that we have to foreign settlers her that will likely fill that place
<mrbaggins> to mine
<mrbaggins> thats ok... its a crappy spot anyway
<mrbaggins> i'm for expanding east and west... and sw
<Tamerlin> So far no other nation has started the Ramajana, so IMO we don't need to think about rushing it now.
<Zaphod> and will generate lots of production, after they're mined
<mrbaggins> not a *lot*
<mrbaggins> size is what we are after anyway
<MartinGuehmann> No, at least to civs started the Ramajana
<mrbaggins> if it doesn't grow... it doesn't matter anyway
<MartinGuehmann> Well it has now a farmer
<Zaphod> when did they start?
<Zaphod> these are things that have to be public!
<MartinGuehmann> 1500 people will added next turn
<Tamerlin> I have missed those two Martin, thaks for the info
<mrbaggins> this site will grow much slower than the southern potato site
<mrbaggins> much much slower
<Zaphod> yes thanks martin, i presume you aren't the one who didn't tell us about
<MartinGuehmann> 10th Turn chat transkript
<mrbaggins> that site has a lot of growth potential
<Tamerlin> We should remove the farmer from wels and produce a Hoplite (ready in one turn)
<mrbaggins> i'm still in favor of disbanding Wels
<Tamerlin> We should keep the farmer this turn it doesn't help us this turn to remove it... so any order about Wels, Disband? Produce a H?
<Zaphod> well, i guess such info would be worth an article in an announcement, i don't read all the turnchat logs everytime, and i presume there are a lot of people who don't even look at them
<mrbaggins> MoDA order> disband Wels

[Martin Gühmann]

<MartinGuehmann> Well if we disband Wels then not this turn chat
<Tamerlin> Martin must give its approval...
<mrbaggins> no... the vote must be approved...
<mrbaggins> which it is at the mo
<MartinGuehmann> It is approved in 20 hours
<Zaphod> it isn't anymore, should have checked for new threads before i logged in ;-)
<Tamerlin> I read the turn chat log but I must admit I have not read the last one. We should nonetheless produce an H as it will be ready next turn, even if we disband it we will have a new H almost free
<Zaphod> get that hoplite, we can't move the troops this turn anyway
<MartinGuehmann> Yeah I second that we shouldn't waste the production stored in Wels
<mrbaggins> i disagree
<mrbaggins> and have voted now in favor of disbanding
<MartinGuehmann> The city is still size one next turn
<mrbaggins> I want to start the potato site to the south ASAP
<mrbaggins> plus have the option to disband all 8 troops in Pedrunnia ASAP
<mrbaggins> in case we have issues with a wonder race
<Tamerlin> There is a tie in the "authorization to disband Wels" thread...
<mrbaggins> it already will take us 8 turns to get to Pedrunnia from here
<Tamerlin> We don't need to let the army here, Wels will build its own defence...
<Zaphod> which is an argument not to rely on those troops for wonderbuilding, you don't know what happens during 8 turns and whether the units have to be ordered back to the front just when they arrive in the capitl
<mrbaggins> it has serious happiness issues
<Tamerlin> The city has just been conquered, whatsoever we should not disband it now, our army can not move anymore and an H will be ready the following turn...
<MartinGuehmann> Yes, so how many unit do we need to add maximum martial law?
<Tamerlin> Isn't it three under Despotism?
<MartinGuehmann> Maximum is 4
<MartinGuehmann> I mean maximum happiness from martial law
<mrbaggins> ok
<MartinGuehmann> but how many units I need for it
<Zaphod> lets have a look at the happiness stats next turn, we can't do anything this turn anyway up there
<mrbaggins> posted a notice of official intent
<Tamerlin> A what?
<mrbaggins> wels is to be disbanded irrespective of the vote
<Tamerlin>
<Tamerlin> If the vote is not in your favor you risk being courted (though not by me)
<Zaphod> so why do you let people vote, if you're not interested in their opionion?
<mrbaggins> no.. i risk being voted out next term...
<MartinGuehmann> Well that decision has to be explained deeper
<mrbaggins> ok... here is my thinking
<mrbaggins> 1... wonder rushing
<mrbaggins> we need as many spare troops in Pedrunnia ASAP
<MartinGuehmann> You can only disband a city evaluated through an official poll
<mrbaggins> if many civs are building different wonders, and they can also swich production between wonders
<mrbaggins> switch
<mrbaggins> then we can effectively waste all the production in Pedrunnia
<MartinGuehmann> We can also switch
<mrbaggins> by not having anything left to build
<mrbaggins> if they finish before us
<MartinGuehmann> Yes, but we can also move units from CL and mapfipolis
<Tamerlin> I understand your arguments MrBaggins but I don't agree with you, IMO we should keep wels, but why not ending this turn producing the H and speak about it later.
<mrbaggins> because we can't delay in making the decision...
<mrbaggins> any turns delay means waste... if you disband, the settler has no move points
<Tamerlin> We can't delay it one turn, our army can not move any more...
<Tamerlin> We can delay it, sorry...
<mrbaggins> right... but if we disband now.. then the settler can move on the turn the army can
<mrbaggins> if we delay it, then the army can't move until 1 turn later
<Tamerlin> Isn't a free Hoplite worth a turn?
<mrbaggins> yes... and we sell the city walls
<MartinGuehmann> I aggree a free hopelite is worth a turn
<mrbaggins> ok... we build the hoplite... sell the walls then disband?
<MartinGuehmann> I wouldn't continue the turn chat anyway if I next action is disbanding Wels
<mrbaggins> its fine by me
<Tamerlin> So let's go on and we will discuss about selling and disbanding the Town later why not through the threads if we stop the game tonight... agreed.
<Zaphod> so we can end it here anyways, as long as mrbaggins insists on disbanding, regardless what the populations of our democracy say
<Zaphod> s
<MartinGuehmann> OK, let's finish the turn
<MartinGuehmann> And discuss the disbanded in the threads
<Tamerlin> We have agreed about the H so I think we should finish the turn
<mrbaggins> no... actually what martin said was right... we can't disband till we finish the vote
<Tamerlin>
<Zaphod> what about that austrian unit near graz?
<Tamerlin> We should attack it, I am almost sure it is here to pillage a tile.
<MartinGuehmann> IT is a half damaged samurai
<Zaphod> so finish it off
<mrbaggins> 1h 1a
<MartinGuehmann> We can't reach it this turn
<Zaphod> and how far away from our southern towns is that thai stack?
<Tamerlin> I don't have any Samurai on my game...
<Zaphod> can we move the units out of graz without loosing the necessary military suppression?
<MartinGuehmann> The Thai stack is 4 or 5 tiles away from mapfipolis
<MartinGuehmann> We can't
<Tamerlin> 5 tiles from Mapfipolis, 6 from Locutia
<Zaphod> ok, that answers the samurai question
<Tamerlin> But we have two units reaching Graz this turn...
<Zaphod> haven''t they been moved yet?
<MartinGuehmann> There aren't moved yet
<Tamerlin> No!
<MartinGuehmann> So should they go to Graz now?
<Zaphod> how far are they away from the sam?
<MartinGuehmann> Two turns
<MartinGuehmann> Attack next turn possible if it stays there
<Tamerlin> We could attack the H west of Graz and reinforce Graz with the new ones
<Tamerlin> We should...
<Zaphod> perhaps only one h should head to graz and 1 a be sent to meet with the other? since i have no map, its rather difficult for me
<MartinGuehmann> There is no H West of Graz to attack
<Tamerlin> In my game, I have an Austrian Hoplite west of Graz
<mrbaggins> ok.. i gotta go
<mrbaggins> no changes as per build queues
<MartinGuehmann> Yes, but in my game I have an half damged Samurai S SW of Graz
<Tamerlin> Bye MrBaggins
<Zaphod> the one that killed the barb
<mrbaggins> except build a hoplite in Wels
<MartinGuehmann> Bye Mrbaggins
<Zaphod> cu mrbaggins
<mrbaggins> i'll see you all in the forums
* mrbaggins has quit IRC (Quit: )
<MartinGuehmann> So desitination of the hopelites?
<Tamerlin> The hoplites can't attack the Samurai I guess?
<MartinGuehmann> Yes
<MartinGuehmann> So we could just wait and see if it comes closer to Graz
<MartinGuehmann> And finish it there
<Zaphod> we could alternatively begin to hunt it, better kill them, when they are alone and injured, than to wait till they combine
<Tamerlin> I would rather agree with Martin, as we don't have any TI beyond one tile this is not a problem... build a Hoplite in Wels.
<MartinGuehmann> They could escape as it can move two tiles per turn
<MartinGuehmann> So move the Hopelites to Graz?
<Tamerlin> Yes
<Zaphod> ok
<MartinGuehmann> OK
<MartinGuehmann> OK, goodsight is left
<Tamerlin> The Warrior "Goodsight" should be moved to the west
<MartinGuehmann> I don't think that is a good idea, as there is the Thai size 6 (or 5) stack then only one tile away
<MartinGuehmann> So better to move it NW
<MartinGuehmann> Tamerlin?
<Tamerlin> We will be killed by the Barbarian units while we are at peace with the thai and our relations are neutral
<MartinGuehmann> Were are Barbarians?
<MartinGuehmann> Well the Thais might be neutral and at peace, but I don't trust them
<Tamerlin> I have a 2 units barbarian stack NE>NE of Goodsight but it seems this is not your case in your game so ok for NW
<Zaphod> generally, if you offer them a good oppurtunity to act foolish they agree to, bloody ai :-(
<MartinGuehmann> Yeah frenzy
<Tamerlin> Isn't the Frenzy code only activated when the Human player is ahead
<MartinGuehmann> OK went NW
<Zaphod> i thought it would be activated, when the human starts to conquer cities ;-)
<Tamerlin> OK
<MartinGuehmann> I think frenzy is in action every time
<MartinGuehmann> We already started to conquer cities
<Zaphod> ooops ;-)
<MartinGuehmann> And my reloadslic is also some turns old
<MartinGuehmann> OK all units moved
<Tamerlin> Build an Hoplite in Wels
<Zaphod> savegame and end chat?
<MartinGuehmann> LemuForce fortified in Wels
<Tamerlin> OK
<MartinGuehmann> Build queue already contains a Hoplite
<MartinGuehmann> And I will rush buy it even it costs nothing just to be shure
<Tamerlin> OK, we should pehaps end the turn before ending the chat?
<Zaphod> will it be ready in one round, if you make the guy farming this turn?
<MartinGuehmann> Yeah I think we should end this turn first
<MartinGuehmann> Yes
<Zaphod> than he should farm and growth
<MartinGuehmann> and if I give zero cach for rush buy then it is shure
<Zaphod> another question
<Zaphod> how many production is stored there? perhaps much more than for a holpite?
<MartinGuehmann> I think we should keep the farmer as it doesn't add anythink to the production
<MartinGuehmann> I think two or thre more turns
<Zaphod> could you chack that out please?
<Tamerlin> Yes we should keep the farme, three turns until growth
<MartinGuehmann> With farmer and without riots it only needs two turns to grow
<Tamerlin> 2 turns with a farmer are enough for a population increase without a farmer in 3 turns...
<MartinGuehmann> OK I remove the farmer to get some additional science
<MartinGuehmann> But then it is more then 3 turns to size 2
<Zaphod> could you please check out, how many production is stored there actually?
<Tamerlin> This is what I said, we should keep the farmer for 2 turns and then remove it as we don't need it anymore.
<MartinGuehmann> With farmer two turns to Drama, without farmer 2 turns to Drama
<MartinGuehmann> So keep the farmer or don't keep the farmer?
<Zaphod> keep the farmer of course
<Tamerlin> So we should let the farmer in Wels, Zaphod there is just enough production for a Hoplite in one turn, we would produce a Shrine in 3 turns.
<Zaphod> ok, thanks for the info
<MartinGuehmann> OK, end turn?
<Tamerlin> But we don't know the fate of Wels and we need a Hoplite to defend it should we keep it.
<Tamerlin> End turn!
<MartinGuehmann> END TURN 88
<Zaphod> well, i was just thinking of perhaps building a theatre instead when we have researched drama in 2 turns, which will give +2 happiness, +4 with a entertainer, as much as 4 units
<Tamerlin> Yes but a theatre is longer to produce we should start with a shrine.
<MartinGuehmann> Well, too late
<Zaphod> too late anyway
<Tamerlin> The Hoplite was the best choice IMO.
<Zaphod> a shrine just gives you one, and it doesn't double entertainers
<Zaphod> i guess so as well
<Tamerlin> Sorry, martin we have been very slow tonight. You are right Zaphod.
<MartinGuehmann> Yeah but we did what we wanted to do
<Tamerlin>
<Zaphod> that hoplite is fine, call him shakespeare ;-)
<MartinGuehmann> A size two stack near CL and Pedrunnia of Barbarians appeared
<MartinGuehmann> The Thai stack didn't move
<Zaphod> the settler east of wels?
<MartinGuehmann> No settler around Wels in sight
<Tamerlin> The games are really going astray, I have a 2 units barbarian stack near Graz... though the Thai did not moved either
<Zaphod> well, there was one in the screenie from mrbaggins
<Tamerlin> I could expell a German one in mine...
<Zaphod> save game and end game chat?
<Tamerlin> Yes
<MartinGuehmann> I have a German settler near mapfipolis
<MartinGuehmann> Game is already saved
<MartinGuehmann> so we can end the chat
<Tamerlin> Yep
<Zaphod> yo
<MartinGuehmann> END OF 11th TURN CHAT