OFFICIAL: What to research after Writing?

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by MrBaggins
What use are theatres to make our citizens happy when 30% or more of their production is lost to crime. The APP are in favor of letting the criminals run riot, and then providing them with entertainment!

I feel that those who care to make such decisions should be better informed.

You should remember MrBaggins that the choice of the APP was Slave Labor instead of writing because we thought we would need mines to increase our production rate. The citizens have chosen Writing in order to reach Monarchy as soon as possible and I think it would be ridiculous to research Slave Labor now that we have delayed it for Writing and Monarchy.

If the citizens are about to chose Slave Labor, we should better change the advance researched now and opt for Writing next.

[Martin Gühmann]

Well in order to get Trade that allows us to build roads and allows us to reasearch Philosophy a preriquisite for Monarchy, I go for Jurisprudence. My second choice is Drama as it is needed for Philosphy.

-Martin

[MrBaggins]

Originally posted by Tamerlin


You should remember MrBaggins that the choice of the APP was Slave Labor instead of writing because we thought we would need mines to increase our production rate. The citizens have chosen Writing in order to reach Monarchy as soon as possible and I think it would be ridiculous to research Slave Labor now that we have delayed it for Writing and Monarchy.

If the citizens are about to chose Slave Labor, we should better change the advance researched now and opt for Writing next.

We've virtually finished researching Writing. Perhaps the APP should consider moderating its drug usage

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by MrBaggins
We've virtually finished researching Writing. Perhaps the APP should consider moderating its drug usage

You have perfectly understood what I meant.

If the citizens vote for Slavery as the next research, it would be much wiser to change our current research for Slavery now and research Writing next.

[MrBaggins]

Its already been voted on... and Writing was decided upon.

The question at hand is... What to research AFTER WRITING?

It says nothing about changing from writing to slave labor.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by MrBaggins
Its already been voted on... and Writing was decided upon.

The question at hand is... What to research AFTER WRITING?

It says nothing about changing from writing to slave labor.

I know, I know, this is only a part of my original argumentation in favor of Drama and against Slavery.

[MrBaggins]

What IS your point? Your drug induced reasoning eludes me

[MrBaggins]

Oh.. btw... forgot to elucidate my earlier point.

When I was thinking Jurisprudence, I was thinking that we should make a run at Chichen Itza... it should be our first wonder:

30% crime reduction, improving everything...

The happiness related wonders are basically unnecessary- even the Appian way, considering that we are on a continent... don't plan on very expansive war and can build roads soon enough.

Pyramids might be nice, but Chichen Itza is more valuable.

Our city placement is way better than the AI's so we have a shot at completing it first... especially given the AI's neurotic production changes.

MrBaggins

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by MrBaggins
Oh.. btw... forgot to elucidate my earlier point.

When I was thinking Jurisprudence, I was thinking that we should make a run at Chichen Itza... it should be our first wonder:

30% crime reduction, improving everything...

The happiness related wonders are basically unnecessary- even the Appian way, considering that we are on a continent... don't plan on very expansive war and can build roads soon enough.

Pyramids might be nice, but Chichen Itza is more valuable.

Our city placement is way better than the AI's so we have a shot at completing it first... especially given the AI's neurotic production changes.

MrBaggins

Actual happiness wonders are not unnecessary. The Ramajana for instance gives us 3 happiness points extra in every city that would be 3 extra cities over the limit or we can squeeze our citiziens better and max out the sliders longer. I tested the game long enough and the AI that got the Ramajana got a lead. So if we build a wonder then it should be the Ramajana and that should we do as soon as possible, otherwise we will see that all the AIs will build all the wonders before us around turn 100.

-Martin

[MrBaggins]

Which assumes space to develop that we don't have, and that we won't have access to Monarchy, which we will...

We are on a course of slow acquisition and very slight expansion. We don't have the capability to do anything else.

By the time we hit the empire size cap, we'll be in a Monarchy already

It would be useful to get a headstart on the AI now... the generic production bonus of reducing crime will enable us to outperform the AI to techs AND wonders.

Chichen Itza will be useful now... and in the future... plus we can change production of the wonder without penalty... so there is plenty of space for a later decision.

My bet is that we will be below the max empire size, when Ramajana is finished, and will be close to Monarchy. So... no significant benefit.

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by MrBaggins
Chichen Itza will be useful now... and in the future... plus we can change production of the wonder without penalty... so there is plenty of space for a later decision.

My bet is that we will be below the max empire size, when Ramajana is finished, and will be close to Monarchy. So... no significant benefit.

There is no space for a later decission, the AI will have build all the wonders then. And there are not only the Austrians also the Germans, the Thais, teh Scottish,... And all of them will build a wonder, so if we want the Ramajana or anything else then we have to build it now.

-Martin

[MrBaggins]

Right, but there is no point in building a wonder to solve a problem we don't have. We need to have as big a gain in science, in any way possible. Additional cities certainly help, but making our existing cities more productive will help more...

I'm not saying don't build Ramajana, I'm saying build Chichen Itza first.

[Maquiladora]

Originally posted by MrBaggins
...The happiness related wonders are basically unnecessary...

You really need to play more SAP...

Back on topic: I voted fot Jurisprudence, towards Monarchy.

[MrBaggins]

Do the math:

As long as a city isn't rioting, it produces science.

We don't have any issue keeping even captured cities out of rioting, due to martial law (until conquest distress decays,) at this stage.

The 'bonus' we'd gain from Ramajana is +3% general production through reduced crime.

The 'bonus' we'd gain through Chichen Itza is +10% under Tyranny and +7% under Monarchy.

If we can get to Monarchy within a short duration of the AI's, plus have Chichen Itza, and start to develop domestically, in H Town and Pedrunnia, then we can start to actually race the AI viably in science.

Ramajana and Chichen Itza are both good in that they both don't become obsolete. I believe, however, in prioritizing, its important that we go for advantages that help NOW... especially in a science sense.

MrBaggins

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by MrBaggins
Right, but there is no point in building a wonder to solve a problem we don't have. We need to have as big a gain in science, in any way possible. Additional cities certainly help, but making our existing cities more productive will help more...

I'm not saying don't build Ramajana, I'm saying build Chichen Itza first.

Well I just did a test game on a random map with a lot of land and ten civs. I played the Barbarians, the wonder race started on turn 78 with the Ramajana. The odd thing was that the Ramajana was build on turn 125, that's a litte bit late in my opion that means 47 turns were needed to complete this wonder, in other games it was done earlier by the AIs. So if we want a wonder we have to start it in the next 20 or 30 turns otherwise we can forget it, it is not likely that we will get a big amount of gold for rush buying it. So as long as we do not decide to block the queues of two cities with wonders, we will only be able to build one wonder, as the Chichen Itza was completed one turn earlier, and some more wonders are build in the following turns.

-Martin