Best place for our third city

[Pedrunn]

Probably thursday at 20:00 or later

[MrBaggins]

I'll sort the comparitive math by tommorow or the day after.

[mapfi]

Growth is always the most important thing for a city because if it doesn't grow we never get anything out of the surrounding squares. Farmers can't make that up because once you grow you also need to sustain your people. For me this completely rules out settling on the coal tile. It won't grow and if we use farmers to get it to a decent size we loose the production from the mountains.

So it's Pedrunn's idea vs. the tile north of the coal.

grassland tile to settle on 15 Food, 5 Production, 5 Gold
8 tiles around it: Total 110 Food, 60 Production, 40 Gold

river tile to settle on: 20 Food, 5 Production, 10 Gold
8 tiles around north of the coal: Total 45 Food, 105 Production, 50 Gold

now Mr. Baggins do the capital distance math...

With a first look I'd prefer the coal spot produce unit after unit there and in (soon to be) Locutus, produce antoher settler in Pedrunn and have a 4 city settle at this new site when we have enough units to start the Austrian war.

[child of Thor]

Yeah coal spot so we can get some production going, we can always grow through other sites/taken cities. But at the mo we need faster production, and then we can grow this coal city at a later date.

[Locutus]

I did some math and posted the results below. Hopefully others can double-check this to make sure I didn't overlook anything.

Assuming an average crime rate of 30, Tyranny government (0.85 govt modifier) and maxed out rations (12-2*3=6 food per pop), here are some stats:

Edit: for the sake of those with small screen resolutions, I've cut the table in two

       | Resource Potential    |  Total Resources Collected at 
Site   | City Tile |  Radius   |  Size 1  |  Size 2  |  Size 3 
---------------------------------------------------------------
Coal   | 30/20/25  | 45/120/55 | 38/40/34 | 45/60/43 | 53/80/53
Potato | 25/20/20  | 110/60/40 | 43/30/27 | 62/40/33 | 80/50/40

       | Turns to Grow to  | After 20 Turns | After 30 Turns
Site   |  2 |  3 |  4 |  5 | Size | Shields | Size | Shields
------------------------------------------------------------
Coal   | 12 | 21 | 31 | 43 |   3  |   571   |   3  |  1035
Potato |  7 | 13 | 18 | 23 |   4  |   488   |   6  |   875

Most of the numbers speak pretty much for itself, I hope. Resource Potential is the total number of resources (F/P/C) available at the site. Total Resources Collected is the total number of resources that can actually be collected at a certain city size (no modifiers applied). Turns to Grow is how long it the city needs to grow to a certain size (accumulative). After 20/30 turns shows the city size and how many shields it collected after 20/30 turns, as an illustration of how these numbers work out in practice. In the short run, the Coal site will produce about 20% more but the Potato site will grow more than twice as fast. In the long run, too many factors weigh in to be able to say anything sensible about it (after size 4 overcrowding starts to kick in (and I have no clue on how it works), crime could change dramatically, government might change, etc).

Growth was calculated by taking the food collected, multiplying it with the government modifier and crime, deducting rations * city size and multiplying that by 75 (pop per food ratio in const.txt). 10,000 divided by this number gives the growth number listed. Production was simply turns to grow * shields collection at that size and adding those numbers for each city size (modified for government and crime modifier).



Right now I believe that if we need an extra city at all, it should be a high-production city, so I favour the Coal site myself.

(I also investigated some neighbouring tiles but they all soon turned out to be inferior)

[Tamerlin]

I think we should settle the tile north of the coal site, the production boost would allow us to build settlers quickly and colonize quickly the remaining land.

[medio]

the north of coal site gives us a good city with access to other possibly good sites without resorting to a war for territory before we are forced to.
Pedrunns military adventure to the west is exercising the war option prematurely

[Martin Gühmann]

DP

-Martin

[Martin Gühmann]

I think we need a good production base and the tile North of the coal tile is a good site for it it has production and growth, also the river reduces the empire distance penalties. Therefore this site is better then everything else. Considering that we still need some turns to go to war with the Austrians we can postpone the founding of the outpost a little bit, but I thing this place will be the place for our next city. I don't think that the Austrians will settle there, probably they have right now 10 cities like the Germans, so they are at the city cap that will make it a little bit unlikley that tehy will fill this litte gap there. From the Austran's leader personality we now that the Austrians use a wide city spacing, so probably the Austrians won't fill the line of free land with a city.

-Martin

[MrBaggins]

We only start getting actual distance penalities after 5 'travel time' from the capitol.

The distance penalty isn't relevant... it only becomes so when we consider sites far in the distance... or away from rivers, or over hills or mountains.

[medio]

Originally posted by Martin Gühmann
DP

-Martin

why do you think so?

[Martin Gühmann]

DP means double post and something like that shouldn't happen. Apolyton needed 7 minutes to post the duplicated version of the post.

-Martin