Settling Location

[ískallin]

near the coal it will take a little longer but it pays out with production
production=warriors=WAR

[MrBaggins]

Growth = pop = much more production, commerce = better everything.

You just can't go wrong with food first... as long as you have *some* productive/commercial land in the radius.

Although ultimately PW is important... growth is *MORE* important at this stage of the game.

[Tamerlin]

Growth and Production explain why I would prefer our settler to create a new city near the place where Dave is currently waiting for our orders.

[MrBaggins]

That site is too far away... for now...

First... its tougher to defend a more spread out empire...

Second... the longer we delay the building of the second city, the longer it will take it to grow, for the resources to defend ourselves, and the means to develop new technologies, to appear.

Any concern that the cities would be too close together is moot... that wouldn't affect us until they were relatively large... and at some future date, when we are safe(r) empire reorganization can take place.

MrBaggins

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

well i don't belive in empire reoganization. city places should be planned carefull from the beginning. i still go for that coal site, it will grow slow but produce a lot of ... well, that can be decided later :;

and btw, whats a spud? altavista.com translates it into german as a spud, which is rather silly since there ain't such a word in german. the only spud i know is a character in trainspotting

[Martin Gühmann]

Both spots have advantages.

On the one hand South of the potato we have an erea with a lot of food boni for fast growth and the spot is near our capital, so it is easy to move troops from one city to the other city.

On the other hand North of the coal we a have a grassland tile, that would give us some initial food and the tiles around give us production for warrior pruduction. But the place is far away from our capital, in comparision of the other place.

So far I think it is more important to have to have more production for warriors in order to defend our cities, there is no use for a fast growing city if we don't have an army that can protect it. Therefore I go for the coal spot.

-Martin

[MrBaggins]

This isn't an either/or choice... its a question of what first... we need bigger cities... for more production, and to produce yet more settlers.

The subsequent city can be founded later.

There is also nothing wrong with a little empire reorganization; a city 'in the wrong place' can become a settler factory in the early-mid game... that you use to expand into a new empire cap, after government change.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Originally posted by MrBaggins
There is also nothing wrong with a little empire reorganization; a city 'in the wrong place' can become a settler factory in the early-mid game... that you use to expand into a new empire cap, after government change.

sometimes thats necessary (for instance, if the "give the poor people in that ugly city you just freed a new beautiful home" button doesn't work).

but those "settler-production-facilities" never turn out very effective, if you want them to produce fast (and be secure, that city would be a border city! in this case) you have to build up some infrastucture/buildings (mills, citywalls...) first. and all that effort only to be abandoned later? NO!

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by Zaphod Beeblebrox
sometimes thats necessary (for instance, if the "give the poor people in that ugly city you just freed a new beautiful home" button doesn't work).

You mean the City Capture Code, year there is a small bug in the current version, that will cause to disappear the resettled people, like bloothbath but without the diplomacy penalty. Or do you mean the enslavement button. I hope I fixed this for the next version of this code you could loose some of your cities if they received to many slaved. Oh and don't try to put a lot of units into the city cycle before you could loose them, too.

Originally posted by Zaphod Beeblebrox
but those "settler-production-facilities" never turn out very effective, if you want them to produce fast (and be secure, that city would be a border city! in this case) you have to build up some infrastucture/buildings (mills, citywalls...) first. and all that effort only to be abandoned later? NO!

I agree we would have to put to much ressources into this settler factory, we need production now and not later when the enemy had overrun us.

-Martin

[MrBaggins]

So you favor getting overrun by the Germans and Austrians, so we *could* have had a 'pretty' empire, had we not been conquered, then?

MrBaggins

[Gilgamensch]

Another reason to settle nearby:

Let's say we build the city in 2 turns from now.
This would mean we can start production/growth.

The other place it like 6 turns away.
Makes a difference of 4 turns, which is the time for one warrior and already the jump from 1 to 2. So, it isn't really any choice, or?

Figures might vary a bit......

[MrBaggins]

We'll get FAR FAR more production by going with the Potato... now... the extra pop means collecting from more squares, even if they do produce less production.

The city square for the Potato site, is on a grassland river... and gets 100% of that production and food bonus. Its probably as or more productive as size 1 or 2... and certainly more productive in terms of commerce.

The Coal site will simply grow too slowly... the Potato is a big food bonus. The extra potential production from the mountains/coal will not be seen til many more turns later than the Potato site.

We also will have a 2 turn head start on growth, going with the potato site.

Regarding the 'settler factory' the 'lost production' of a few buildings will be meaningless when we have a 15 city empire... the quick start the city provides us, will be all that matters... and pay off in spades.

MrBaggins

[Martin Gühmann]

From the latest save game I have the hopelite in the city has one movement point (like the settler) it needs two turns to get to the Southern potato tile, it needs four turns to reach the Northern coal tile, so that are only two extra turns. To settle on one of these spots we need one extra turn. So here are the numbers of turns to found a city on these spots:

Potato: 1 + 2 + 1 = 5
Coal: 1 + 4 + 1 = 7

-Martin

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Originally posted by MrBaggins
So you favor getting overrun by the Germans and Austrians, so we *could* have had a 'pretty' empire, had we not been conquered, then?

MrBaggins

no we (the APP) want to have peaceful relations to our neighbors so we really can build up a nice nation and later... well perhaps party policies might change somewhen in the future

[MrBaggins]

that does, of course, presume a live and let live attitude from our neighbors...

plus our neighbors seem to be encroaching very quickly on where we are able to settle peacefully.

however, we can probably find some nice desert mountains or swamp to settle on though...