RESOLUTION: Peace Treaty now

[mapfi]

we just won't stand a chance with them having three times as many (soon to be more) cities and a very large tech lead - you go and attack them but I'm sure we will fail miserably

and btw - by always having a withdraw agreement (not too difficult just play on good terms) the Frenzy AI won't be able to hurt us at all. The AI really is at our mercy if we play it cool - warmongering is playing into it's hands because that's where its advantages lie. With diplomacy however you can fend them off and grow to a size allowing wars later on.

[Dinner]

So far no is ahead by a vote.

[Turambar]

In my opinion we need to grow to a at least 10-city civ before we even consider any war.

1) I don't think there's a chance of us getting 10 cities peacefully because before very long the AI civs will have settled all around us leaving nowhere for our settlers to go.

2) The AI civs and barbs won't let us live in peace long enough to get 10 cities. We must strike first to get any advantage out of war. It'll be alot quicker to take 10 AI cities than build our. We should grow at our enemies expense!

[Martin Gühmann]

To answer the question were the other civs are should be simple: They are around us. We have a setup with many civs and a gigantic map, and most probably all AI civs have 5 cities already. And as I raised the settling goals and the number of settlers the AI needs to have we have very aggressive settling AIs. So we could be very soon be sandwiched.

-Martin

[Ãskallin]

give em a peace treaty and then kill em

[mapfi]

It's true that taking AI cities is a lot easier than building them on your own. However - if we manage to put together a little army by having two cities producing warriors and then attack the Austrians, then we will get one third city - about ten to twenty turns later we will have two AI stacks taking two cities away from us, we will take one back and then the next wave comes and then good night.
The only advantage a human player has on these levels is diplomacy - because it forces the AI to obey some principles. All the other restrictions that we encounter in growth, production, PW and gold are not valid for the AI, he's got a hell of an advantage there!

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by mapfi
In my opinion we need to grow to a at least 10-city civ before we even consider any war. By that time Austria will send us Frenzy stacks even if we have a peace treaty.

I think we would be able, and actually that we should, launch an attack when we reach around five cities.

But no peace treaty as this would lower our reputation.

[Devil of Truth]

The AI will probably attack whether we have a treaty in place or not. A treaty may buy us some time but will limit our options should we need to expand. My best guess: Remain neutral; no treaties; and don’t aggravate them.

[Zacharov]

We just need to survive at this stage of the game. A good reputation is of no use when we're dead.

We can always fix our reputation with gold and our map after breaking a treaty.

[Gilgamensch]

I even haven't voted in the old one, reason being:

I don't know what to do. If we attack we might get erased in return. Don't forget, that the Barbs are coming. Both together will be hard to achive, I guess.

Also without Archers we 'might' get our army (which army?) whiped out.

So I tend more to the peacetreaty (for the moment)

[mapfi]

I'm busy playing GoodMod now to back my argumentation. My experience tells me - that if we don't get a peace treaty now we won't get one from any other civ. In terms of diplomacy that would severly damage us. While we might be able to keep up against one enemy we have no chance if we have to battle more.

There are 10 more civs on this planet - there's got to be another close nearby. If we don't make peace with the Austrians now, I'm pretty sure any other civ will turn us down unless we give them all we have. Then we will have more than one enemy sending stacks!

I think now is the only chance we've got - the chances are also - that this discussion is purely hypothetical because the Austrians won't agree anyway. If they did however, we got to take the only chance we've got.

[mapfi]

quorum not reached - no effect - finito

(and now we also got the germans! told you so... )