Article: The Executive Branch

[Gilgamensch]

Pedrunn,

(c) The action of Rush buy build queue items will only be perfomed with the approvel of the President.

The rest I might comment on when I read the other threads.

[Gilgamensch]

Finished the rest of the threads, so:

According with the section 5-V.b of this article. The MoD has the control over unit disbanding. Maybe the MoDA can ask the MoD for the unit use for rush buying.
Or do you thing the MoDA should have more control over disbanding other than settlers? I think the current way is fine.

It isn't about the MoDA having more control about the dedicated military units, it is:

The SC request 2 units.
The MoDA builds 3, 1 for rushing a project in another city. Should the SC still have this unit, even as he didn't requested it?

I hope you 'understand' my concern......


Mapfi:

Having not enough polls can cause the same, so it works both way's round. But I'll still prefer to have more polls, than afterwards citizens whining: I wasn't able to decide on this.....

Pedrunn:

2.I.d:

Every name through a poll? Why not makiung a thread, where everyone can post a suggestion? When everyone posted one suggestion, we start again......... The Pres. will start from the top and works he's way down....... No poll, no hassle.......Everyone get's his town


add-on for
2.IV.b
You should add the same as for the SC, 2.V.b: The Minister od Diplomacy and Treade may not order any action which would result in a declaration of war without this action first being evaluated by the citizens through an Official Poll (article III, section 3-II).

Reason: Think of the Slaver, if he is succesful, we are at war with this nation.....

Quick question about disbanding cities:

Who decides what to do with captured cities? I know we had a discussion, but what happened about it?

Lemmy:

No political campaigns in this thread , try to get voters somewhere else........

Mapfi:

That's again the idea of the delegate, if you don't have time your delegate should have, hopefully.

Mapfi (and others):
The minister should always give general advices as well. Only exeption I see, is for city placement. But otherwise??? Same for diplomatic relations. If it is something serious, we should be 'contacted' anyway. But otherwise? (peace treaty.......) General guidelines again.

For running the game:

I haven't played DG online before, so don't know, but in the beginning I don't see so much of a problem there (turnchats...). We should be able to run with the orders posted.


What is your expecation of it anyway? That we'll finish the game in two weeks? I don't really expect (average) more than 5-10 turns per week.

We shouldn't forget that:
a.) some people have only limited online time.
b.) for any reason, some people want to have a normal live (what is this????)
c.) and whatever....

Sorry for having such a long post.......

[Pedrunn]

Originally posted by Gilgamensch
It isn't about the MoDA having more control about the dedicated military units, it is:

The SC request 2 units.
The MoDA builds 3, 1 for rushing a project in another city. Should the SC still have this unit, even as he didn't requested it?

I hope you 'understand' my concern......

I understood what've said and your concern is just that I believe this third unit still should be controlled by the MoD no matter what the MoDA planned. This MoDA plan should be explained before (or after) the building of the third to the MoD and through the MoD the MoDA will make what he has planned. Of course if the MoD dont betray the MoDA
The way you are saying will get things to complicated. And if the MoDA requests and the MoD doesnt make a objection a inocent unit can be disbanded too. Dont see much of a problem in have this kind of relationship among minister to achive a common or individual goal.

Originally posted by Gilgamensch
2.IV.b
You should add the same as for the SC, 2.V.b: The Minister od Diplomacy and Treade may not order any action which would result in a declaration of war without this action first being evaluated by the citizens through an Official Poll (article III, section 3-II).

agreed. It will be in the next update.

Originally posted by Gilgamensch
Having not enough polls can cause the same, so it works both way's round. But I'll still prefer to have more polls, than afterwards citizens whining: I wasn't able to decide on this.....

Believe me, I still think there are too few but those are the only that can be obligatory without loosing the game pace. The rest we can only trust the minister's opinion which is fine to me.

Originally posted by Gilgamensch
2.I.d:
Every name through a poll? Why not makiung a thread, where everyone can post a suggestion? When everyone posted one suggestion, we start again......... The Pres. will start from the top and works he's way down....... No poll, no hassle.......Everyone get's his town

This was what would happen if the people dont agree with the city chosen name. Remember official polls are just for public hearing therefore the people has to come up with a better name through resolution poll. That was what i thought. But i am afraid this may need a better explanation in the connie

Originally posted by Gilgamensch
Who decides what to do with captured cities? I know we had a discussion, but what happened about it?

Section 2-II.a
"The Minister of Domestic Affairs is responsible for managing all cities. "

Originally posted by Gilgamensch
That's again the idea of the delegate, if you don't have time your delegate should have, hopefully.
(...)
What is your expecation of it anyway? That we'll finish the game in two weeks? I don't really expect (average) more than 5-10 turns per week.
(...)
Mapfi (and others):
The minister should always give general advices as well. Only exeption I see, is for city placement. But otherwise??? Same for diplomatic relations. If it is something serious, we should be 'contacted' anyway. But otherwise? (peace treaty.......) General guidelines again.

Exacly and if anyone shows up the Pres will do what you planned but report the events and his decision in a poll. And i thought (just a thought though) to limit the game to max of 20 turns per week. I think we should decide through a poll after all.
Either way the better the guidelines the faster the game will run. With or without the minister who decided about it. Becase the lesser the discussions. Of course, not as fast as mapfi way .
I just want to make this game more democratic

Originally posted by Gilgamensch
We shouldn't forget that:
a.) some people have only limited online time.
b.) for any reason, some people want to have a normal live (what is this????)
c.) and whatever....

Thats Mpfi's biggest agument togther with the time spent in the DG until it end as you must have notest by now.

[Lemmy]

And i thought (just a thought though) to limit the game to max of 20 turns per week.

Heh, no need to limit it to 20 turns, it's pretty much impossible to play that many turns per week, not later in the game, and not in the start either, cos of the continuous exploration at the start, it's hard to plan decisions, and distributing the savegame during a turnsession would take to long.

[Pedrunn]

Originally posted by Lemmy

And i thought (just a thought though) to limit the game to max of 20 turns per week.

Heh, no need to limit it to 20 turns, it's pretty much impossible to play that many turns per week, not later in the game, and not in the start either, cos of the continuous exploration at the start, it's hard to plan decisions, and distributing the savegame during a turnsession would take to long.

I would never think in limit anymore. I dont see a good reason why anymore. But why wouuld the savegames distribution take so long time? It could be just a post in a thread.

[Lemmy]

It has to be saved, uploaded, then the ministers have to download it, take a look, and decide on what to do next.
Then there will be a discusion among the ministers on what to do next, not everyone may agree with the minister orders. Before they've finally decided what to do, 30 minutes will have passed.

[mapfi]

So Pedrunn, since the poll turns out against forcing turnchats you're ready to give us an update on the article again? Preferably with my suggestions or something similar?

[Gilgamensch]

I think, Pedrunn just has to go back to the previous version

Lemmy,

that's the reason why I prefer not to have turnchats, everyone can take his/her time.

Could always happen, just think you are having a serious discussion about a important thing in the DG and your girlfriend/wife/whatever decides to switch off the computer and play with her? What you gonna tell her???????????

[H Tower]

EDIT: I'm blind this morning

[Pedrunn]

Can you fix that mapfi i will be out for a couple of day (I hope to be back monday)

[Locutus]

I haven't really been following this discussion and I don't think I will (too busy IRL), but 2 remarks for you guys to think about (these may have been mentioned already - like I said, I haven't been following this):

1. (f) In case of absence of a minister and all of its respectives delegates during the game playing, the president will assume it functions and act in this absent minister behalf.

1. What happens if the President is absent? Maybe it would be good to define a chain of command. E.g. if the President is unable to perform his duties, the Minister of Defense, Minister of STD, Minster of Domestic Affairs, Minister of Infrastructure or the Supreme Justice will take over, in that order. Something like that...

2. In earlier threads, the option of a veto-right for the President (or the president plus one or more Ministers) was discussed - do we still want that?

I'll leave it up to you guys to discuss this further and work out the details, if needed.

[child of Thor]

Chain of command is very important and will be vital for the smooth running of the game.
Maybe the next in command should be the minister with the least amount of workload? So i don't know if the Minister of Defence would be best to be next in line(And maybe he would just wipe all opposition out ).
And i'd still vote for a veto for the President, with whatever conditions people think are best(as long as it doesn't negate the reason for the veto in the first place!).

[Pedrunn]

I dont like the veto i think the president should use resolution poll like everyone else (thats the way it is in the constitution) but mapfi do want some if the order is clearly wrong although this may be a too subjective.
We should start a poll about it abou i want to finish all.

About the president absence this line will probably drop because it was decided in the votation that the president should play on its own following the ministers guideline and not along a meeting.

I must go now i have almost 100 pages to study to a exam tomorrow. I shouldnt even be here talking to you guys but i couldnt resist

[mapfi]

Ok, since Pedrunn doesn't have time I'm trying to write an update. So go ahead - raise your voices...
(Changes to the last update in bold)

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Article: The Executive Branch


1. General Contents

(a) The members of the Executive Branch are called ministers and the positions in the Exective Branch are called ministerial offices or executive offices.
(b) Any citizen become a candidate for an executive office by expressing his desire to in the thread started by the Court as described in Article IV.
(c) An elected minister is charged with the duties explained in this Chapter 2 of this article until the end of the term for which the minister was elected.
(e)The terms for all elected offices last four weeks (28 days). All ministers will remain in office for this period unless they resign or are impeached before the end of it.
(f) If a minister will be unable to perform its duties for some part of the term, this minister has the right to choose a willing citizen as delegate, who will act on his behalf, until further notice from the minister or the end of the position term, whichever is the sooner. This delegate will still be subordinated to the citizen being replaced.
(f) deleted
(g) A minister who expects to have to appoint a delegate for a significant proportion of the term is encouraged to resign.
(h) Every in-game action made or recommended to the President by a minister must be posted to the forum, no matter how insignificant it is.
(i) All resolutions passed by the citizens through a resolution poll declared valid by the Court will be obeyed by all ministers and will overrule all decisions made by ministers in order to make its content part of the game.


2. Government Positions

I. The President
(a) The President shall physically play the game on a regular and scheduled basis whenever possible and post the save and a complete report of the game events to the forum.
(b)The President is encouraged to use turnchats, turnthreads, or any other similar method while playing the game.
(c) The President must follow the instructions of the Court, the Ministers and their delegates while playing the game and doesn't hold any veto powers unless specifically named in the constitution. If an instruction is clearly erroneous, or by changed circumstances made impossible or harmful the President may decide in the best interest of the game.
(d) In case of missing orders for a whole turn from a minister and all his delegates the President may not play on.
(e) The President is in charge of naming all new cities of the empire regardless of how the cities were created or assimilated. A name has to be evaluated by the citizens through an Official Poll (article III, section 3-II) before a city is named.
(f) The President is in charge of all the Empire settings and sliders, including Rations, Workday, Wages, Public Works rate and Science rate.
(g) The President has the power over the money reserve. Therefore every money spending decision must have the approval of the President in order to be act.

II. The Minister of Domestic Affairs
(a) The Minister of Domestic Affairs is responsible for managing all cities. Including their distribution of specialist citizens and production queues, rushed production requests and disbanding of cities.
(b) The Minister of Domestic Affairs can only disband a city after this action be evaluated by the citizens through an Official Poll (article III, section 3-II).
(c) The action of Rush buy build queue items will only be perfomed with the President's approval.
(d) The Minister of Domestic Affairs is ultimately responsible for settlers, choosing site for new cities and moving these units to this site.

III. The Minister of Infrastruture
(a) The Minister of Infrastructure is ultimately responsible for the placement of tile improvements, choosing the best tile and the best improvement to place with the current reserve of public workers.

IV. The Minister of Diplomacy, Trade and Science
(a) The Minister of Diplomacy, Trade and Science is responsible for gifts, requests, exchanges and agreements with other nations. Any paying of gold has to be approved by the President.
(b) The Minister of Diplomacy, Trade and Science can only propose a gift or an exchange with another civilization three days after this minister start a Official Poll (article III Section 3-II) with this topic for public hearing.
(b) The Minister of Diplomacy, Trade and Science has the control over all unconventional units, except settlers. Spending gold with the unconventional units orders has to be approved by President. Any action which would result in a declaration of war has to be evaluated by the citizens through an Official Poll (article III, section 3-II).
(c) The Minister of Diplomacy, Trade and Science controls all internal and foreign trade.
(d) The Minister of Diplomacy, Trade and Science controls research. But in choice can only be accopliched three days after being evaluated by the citizens through an Official Poll (article III, section 3-II).

V. The Minister of Defense
(a) The Minister of Defense controls all units and their orders including the disband order, except settlers and all other unconventional units.
(b)The Minister of Defense may not order any action which would result in a declaration of war without this action first being evaluated by the citizens through an Official Poll (article III, section 3-II).
(c) The Minister of Defense shall name all armies that he thinks necessary to make easier the discussions.

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Now I don't like the need for polls in two cases in the ministry for diplomacy, trade and science because I think that minister can almost do nothing at all on his own. I'd scrap the polling requirement for gifts and for science.
Gifts without getting anything back could be made with the approval of the pres, exchanges should be in power of the minister. Science will certainly always be discussed but no need to poll every decision in research - we don't poll the slider either which is much more important. So my proposal here:

IV
(b) The Minister of Diplomacy, Trade and Science can only propose a gift to another civilization or give in to a demand of tribute with the approval of the president.
(d) The Minister of Diplomacy, Trade and Science controls research.

[H Tower]

question about 2. I(d)

Why does the president have to wait for an order from the minister to play the game? I can understand why he should wait for orders from the ministers, of reasonable time. God forbid though, a minister goes AWOL and doesn't have a delegate, the game would come to a halt for a very long time. I think that if the Pres feels comfortable with playing on for one more session without a report, that should be ok