Article: The Executive Branch

[Pedrunn]

Originally posted by mapfi
funny Maq seems to post my sentences...

It is fixed

And i will add a line saying that the President can play a minister function if this minister is absent and none of his delegate is around in during the turn-chat. Which will be what you are saying and some more.

[mapfi]

That's what my lines are saying, and it fixes the other issues which would unnecessarily delay the game.

[Gilgamensch]

Pedrunn, did you change your old post? or will be get a new one?

[Pedrunn]

UPDATE: Check bold parts

Article: The Executive Branch


1. General Contents


(a) The members of the Executive Branch are called ministers and the positions in the Exective Branch are called ministerial offices or executive offices.
(b) Any citizen become a candidate for an executive office by expressing his desire to in the thread started by the Court as described in Article IV.
(c) An elected minister is charged with the duties explained in this Chapter 2 of this article until the end of the term for which the minister was elected.
(e)The terms for all elected offices last four weeks (28 days). All ministers will remain in office for this period unless they resign or are impeached before the end of it.
(e) If a minister will be unable to perform his duties for some part of the term, this minister has the right to choose a willing citizen as delegate, who will act on his behalf, until further notice from the minister or the end of the position term, whichever is the sooner. This delegate will still be subordinated to the citizen being replaced.
(f) In case of absence of one minister and all of its delegates during the game playing, the president will assume it functions and act in this absent citizen behalf. If two or more minister and all of its respectives delegates are missing the game playing will have to be delayed to a day defined by the President.
(g) A minister who expects to have to appoint a delegate for a significant proportion of the term is encouraged to resign.
(h) Every in-game action made or recommended to the President by a minister must be posted to the forum, no matter how insignificant it is.
(i) All resolutions passed by the citizens through a resolution poll declared valid by the Court will be obeyed by all ministers and will overrule all decisions made by ministers in order to make its content part of the game.

2. Government Positions

I. The President
(a) The President shall physically play the game on a regular and scheduled basis whenever possible and post the save and a report of the game to the forum.
(b) The President may use turnchats, turnthreads, or any other method approved by the Court to play the game session.
(c) The President must follow the instructions of the Court and Ministers while playing the game unless the instruction is clearly erroneous, or made impossible and/or harmful by changed circumstances. In this case, the President can bring this decision into the vote of resolution poll if the minister doesn’t accept the President opinion therefore halting the game.
(d) The President is in charge of naming all new cities of the empire regardless of how the cities were created or assimilated.
(e) The President is in charge of all the Empire settings and sliders, including Rations, Workday, Wages, Public Works rate and Science rate.
(f) The President has the power over the money reserve. Therefore every money spending decision must have the aproval of the President in order to be act.

II. The Minister of Domestic Affairs
(a) The Minister of Domestic Affairs is responsible for managing all cities. Including their distribution of specialist citizens and their production queues and rushed production requests. The action of Rush buy build queue itens will only be perfomed with the aproved by the President.
(b) The Minister of Domestic Affairs is ultimately responsible for the settlers, choosing site for new cities and moving these units to this site. The Minister of Domestic Affairs is also responsible for the disbanding of cities.

III. The Minister of Infrastruture
(a) The Minister of Infrastructure is ultimately responsible for the placement of tile improvements, choosing the best tile and the best improvement to place with the current reserve of public workers.

IV. The Minister of Diplomacy and Trade
(a) The Minister of Diplomacy and Trade is responsible for gifts, requests, exchanges and agreements with other nations. Still every proposal or response to a proposal that involves gold spending has to be aproved by the President.
[b](b) The Minister of Diplomacy and Trade can only propose a gift or an exchange with another civilization three days after this minister start a Official Poll (article III Section 3-II) with this topic for public hearing.
(b) The Minister of Diplomacy and Trade has the control over all unconventional units, except settlers. And this minister may spend gold with the unconventional units orders, but only after the approval of the President.
(c) The Minister of Diplomacy and Trade controls all internal and foreign trade.
(d) The Minister of Diplomacy and Trade controls research.

V. The Minister of Defense
(a) The Minister of Defense controls all units and their orders including the disband order, except settlers and all other unconventional units.
(b) The Minister of Defense can only start an act of war with another civilization three days after this minister start a Official Poll (article III Section 3-II) with this topic for public hearing.
(c) The Minister of Defense shall name all armies that he thinks necessary to make easier the discussions.

[Pedrunn]

I am also updating the first post

[Gilgamensch]

Thanks for the update Pedrunn,

for
1 (i): Only for Ministers? not also for the President?
(Or you just want to leave a backdoor for r/s ?????)


V (b) is a bit misunderstandable

(b) The Minister of Defense can only start an act of war with another civilization three days after this minister start a Official Poll (article III Section 3-II) with this topic for public hearing.


(b) The Minister of Defense can only start an act of war with another civilization after placing an Offical Poll (article III, section 3-II).

I am not really satisfied with my sollution either..... But might sound better and less confusing.

Another thing me might be missing:

Another form of rushbuy, would be with the help of disbanding military units:

The MoDA decides what to build, but he decides to build military units to speed up production in another city. Who has the final control? Shall we still say, that those are controlled by the Supreme Commander? (Why did we changed to MoD, are we getting peaceful?) Or should the MoDA clearly state that those where for production, while putting them into the build-queue and therefore overriding the SC?

[Lemmy]

So ehm...when can we start nominations?

The only thing you\re talking about now is the wording of the article right? The jobs are all worked out by the polls? If so, then we can start a nominations thread.

[Gilgamensch]

Lemmy,

don't waste our time while we are trying to appear to be serious here

But there is already something 'unofficial', see this thread

Just a list of possible members.........

[J Bytheway]

Originally posted by Lemmy
So ehm...when can we start nominations?

I think we should elect judges first.

[Gilgamensch]

I thought that's what we 'agreed' on?

At least I hadn't heard any objection then, I think it was in the court thread?????

[mapfi]

Pedrunn, I don't like your solution at all.
You're now forcing the pres to play the game with the ministers together. If we want to do that, we might as well write it in the appropriate article, e.g. the pres has to organize a turnchat for the actual playing of the game
This is however not what I'd prefer. Let's leave that up to the pres, like it was written before. I, for example would rather have turnthreads with detailed orders for 5 turns which are then executed by the pres. Organizing a time where everybody can be present can prove to be very difficult - look at the MP games. This Demogame will never progress if we set such strict restrictions in the constitution.
I want my solution - the pres will after all be always liable to the public and can't just do whatever he wants.

[Gilgamensch]

Mapfi,

I think the idea was more, that no necessarily a turnchat, but also reffering back to the initial orders, like you mentioned.

And no: the Pres. has to follow the instructions ! If he screws up, WE are doomed.......

[mapfi]

Well, that's not the way it is worded now.
And as for the president playing turns without having got orders from the ministers - I didn't even think of that. Of course he can't! If that's the meaning of the sentence I'm even more against it. Let's say the pres opens a thread for orders for the next 5 turns - the Defence Minister doesn't answer before the time the Pres fixed for playing - then the pres would decide all the unit moves? Of course not. He just can't play!

[Pedrunn]

Originally posted by J BytheWay
I think we should elect judges first.

Agreed. Can someone PM Locutus?

Originally posted by Gilgamesh
(b) The Minister of Defense can only start an act of war with another civilization after placing an Offical Poll (article III, section 3-II).

Looks nice. I dont actually see any difference. But J could come up with something

Originally posted by Gilgamesh
The MoDA decides what to build, but he decides to build military units to speed up production in another city. Who has the final control? Shall we still say, that those are controlled by the Supreme Commander?

According with the section 5-V.b of this article. The MoD has the control over unit disbanding. Maybe the MoDA can ask the MoD for the unit use for rush buying.
Or do you thing the MoDA should have more control over disbanding other than settlers? I think the current way is fine.

Originally posted by mapfi
If we want to do that, we might as well write it in the appropriate article, e.g. the pres has to organize a turnchat for the actual playing of the game

It is already in. Read Section 2-I.b of this article.

Originally posted by mapfi
This is however not what I'd prefer. Let's leave that up to the pres, like it was written before. I, for example would rather have turnthreads with detailed orders for 5 turns which are then executed by the pres.

But what if something unexpected happens and some orders have to be changed? Halt the game? The idea of turn-chat/thread is to the pres to execute the orders while talking with the ministers in case anything new happens.

Originally posted by mapfi
Pedrunn, I don't like your solution at all.
You're now forcing the pres to play the game with the ministers together.
(...)
Organizing a time where everybody can be present can prove to be very difficult - look at the MP games. This Demogame will never progress if we set such strict restrictions in the constitution.

The problem about the minister absence tried to be fixed with the existance of delegates as defined in section 1-e. Still I dont have much experience with MP so i am open to new ideas although i think delegates are good enough.

Originally posted by mapfi
And as for the president playing turns without having got orders from the ministers - I didn't even think of that. Of course he can't! If that's the meaning of the sentence I'm even more against it. Let's say the pres opens a thread for orders for the next 5 turns - the Defence Minister doesn't answer before the time the Pres fixed for playing - then the pres would decide all the unit moves? Of course not. He just can't play!

I am confused, sorry. Isnt this what you meant with the following ending of the sentence you suggest for the constitution (check bold)
"The President must follow the instructions of the Court, Ministers and passed resolution polls while playing the game. If an instruction is clearly erroneous, or made impossible and/or harmful by changed circumstances, or in absence of instructions the President may decide in the best interest of the game."

Originally posted by mapfi
I want my solution - the pres will after all be always liable to the public and can't just do whatever he wants.

This current system is the best i could come up with. Could you explain better what do you have in mind? As you see with the above comments i am still a bit confused about it

[Lemmy]

I like mapfi's suggestion better (based on his last post).
The president should always carry out minister orders, unless smething unexpected happens, for example in the case of a turnthread, of even in a turnchat, with the deciding minsiter not present.
If something unexpected happens, it's up to the president to decide what to do next, in my experience, it has often been that the game will be halted, and continue when the ministers had a chance to examine the situation after a few days.

It's too difficult to always organize a turnchat, and also keep the game going, so therefore it shouldn't be in the constitution.