Government positions

[HuangShang]

so this thread is now useless.........

[H Tower]

this poll is deadlocked, the thread is not useless. Hopefully people will be willing to work things out now that they know that their pet form of government isn't acceptable to the people. I forsee lots of compromise on the horizon

[Dale]

Pedrunn:

My suggestion:

President:
- Runs the game etc.

Chief of Military:
- Runs the military.
- Organises coup and knocks off the President. Declares he was elected legally but in actual fact rigged election.
- Assumes total authority and puts fanatically faithful in cabinet positions.
- Keeps Parliament as a tool to deceive other nations, but ignore any ruling they make.
- Lies about secret weapons caches, underground bunkers/research facilities to UN.

Sorry, couldn't resist that one.

Actually Pedrunn, I like your proposal. Give the sliders to Infrastructure. That's essentially what they are. Presidents should be figureheads, with no real power. I suppose you could give the President the "Parliament Chairperson" job to ensure everything runs to protocol, but not able to make decisions.

[Gilgamensch]

Pedrunn,

I was thinking of restricting the President, but then he'll be just an executioner, which I wouldn't like him to be.

But where do you think, it is Tyranny? He can't really decide anything on his own?

I could kind of live with option 3, I just don't like how it is distributed.
Diplomacy should be executed by the head of state, even if it is just presenting the people.

The sliders I am OK with it (opt3), as it effects all of us . (we'll have to stay longer at the computer )

Special units: The command should be in the hand of the supreme commander, but if our Grand Apolyton decides it is better not to execute as part of diplomacy, he should be able to place his veto against, doesn't mean he can decide on his own.

If you all really think the top of the state should be just an executioner, then we should name him so...........

[Lemmy]

i now actually agree with Pedrunn proposal of giving slider to another minister...

Several options new options now

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Pedrunn:
Proposal 3, but minister of infra gets the sliders

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Gilgamensch:
President/Grand Apolyton:
- runs the game
- can make suggestion about changing the government (unless revolution (impeachment) occurred)
- diplomacy
- can poll about sliders (food/work/gold/PW/science)
- can decide about war-/piece-time (military-slider)
- veto right for special actions for special units.
- decides where to place PW-actions.

Minister of Domestic Affairs:
- City management (specialists/queue)
- can request PW to be used for terraforming/improvments (towards president, who will have to poll)
- expansion of cities (where.....)
- takes care of settlers.

Minister of Money:
- advances to be researched
- can request change of slider for science input/gold (towards president, who will have to poll).
- trade-routes
- request towards MDA (minister of Dom......) caravans to be build.

Supreme Commander:
- all military units, unless otherwise noted.

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And i'd also like to include Proposal 2, but with the empire settings under MoInfra.


I'm thinking a new poll might be in order...in 2 days maybe? Should leave enough time the finalize each proposal.

[Gilgamensch]

Good that we weren't around and involved when people wrote their constituion's (America, Germany, Magna Carta, ........)

We still would be without a connie till nowadays, still struggling

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

well, i was around the last time the studentship at our university changed its constitution, took 3 attempts in nearly 2 years. constitiouns should be written by dumb people i guess, they don't think of all the possible loopholes

[Gilgamensch]

That's the problem with those students, thy are there to learn nothing

Or as in German

Was hast du heute geleert (mein bier )

[child of Thor]

I voted for 2, partly to end(hopefully)this awful demonstration of true democracy at work! And partly .......well i dunno - i'm just one of the masses(hah!) putting my 'x' in the box oh yeah and to start an argument or maybe to prove why true democracy is a wholely inefficient model to run just about anything on. I think this is the reason why most world powers don't use true democracies - they just give you the illusion that that is what they are and enough choices to keep you happy. Welcome to the machine

[H Tower]

have we had some compromise done between the two proposals that have received the most votes? because if they are very similar, then we can just combine the two, and that would probably carry the vote in a new poll

[Locutus]

Well, proposal 1 and 4 obviously didn't make it, but several viable new proposals were made. So unless someone comes with even more new ideas within the next ~24 hours, I'd say we have 5 options to consider: proposals 2 and 3 from this poll, Pedrunn's proposal 5 (an adaptation of proposal 3), Gilgamensch's proposal (as formulated by Lemmy; let's call this proposal 6) and Lemmy's own proposal (a slight adaptation of proposal 2, which I'd like to call proposal 7).

This leaves us with how to decide on the right choice. Four options are very similar: 2 and 7 only differ in who does empire settings, the same goes for 3 and 5. The only difference between the former and latter two is the number of ministers. Only Gilgamensch's proposal is really different. So I propose we do 2 polls: 1 to determine if the president should do Empire Settings or if one of the Ministers should do that, and 1 poll to determine whether proposal 2, 3 or 6 should be implemented (where the empire settings will be moved to an appropriate minister post if the other poll indicates that this is needed).

Personally I favour proposal 7: 4 cabinet members to keep the government small (at least as long as it's possible, we can always amend the constitution to add ministers later), a sensible division of workload and the president focuses on running the game. Proposal 2 would also be very acceptable to me, but I don't like the other 5 one bit, not to start out with anyway (proposals 1 and 6 give one of the ministers a *way* too heavy a workload).

[Lemmy]

Sounds good to me

[mapfi]

I'm against giving control over the uncoventional units to the Military. I want to see them under control of the foreign minister. The military has got enough power as it is and the foreign minister will control diplomats anyway. So give him all. The military is by far the most powerful force in the game!

[Pedrunn]

Originally posted by mapfi
I'm against giving control over the uncoventional units to the Military. I want to see them under control of the foreign minister. The military has got enough power as it is and the foreign minister will control diplomats anyway. So give him all. The military is by far the most powerful force in the game!

I also think the minister of defense has already too much work.
As i proposed in my initial sugestion

Maybe this will be another poll ( BTW: Locutus, the suggestion is not different from a amendment poll at all, as i declared i would start one )

But before lets make a the run-off poll (2 + 3 + 6)

[child of Thor]

I think the ruler should be allowed to veto anything that the ministers/government ask him to do at the sharp end, but he/she better be able to justify the action! At the end of the day we all vote for the ruler so if anyone wants to run for a second term or more(or avoid a coup!) then they should take this into account. History is littered with rulers who went their own way on important issues- sometimes to their benefit, sometimes not...........

e.g. Barbs popping up all over the place, minister of defence is trying to raise an army to take a city, decides to leave a city poorly defended to make the attack. The ruler decides not to go with the plan, waits a few more turns to shore up defenses before green lighting the attack - has a quiet word with the minister of defence and explains his/her actions.

that kind of thing - sometimes it's only the guy on top who can see the big picture(and in terms of playing the game, the ruler will be in a much better position to actually see how the game is panning out.) and react accordingly - of course if the wrong decision is taken......well resignation/abdication is not unheard of?