Government positions

[Lemmy]

This poll is to decide what the government position will be, and what each position controls.

The choices:

Proposal 1

President/Grand Apolyton
- The only person who actually physically plays the game
- Distributes the savegames to whoever needs them (government officials, maybe others - TBD)
- Organizes turnchats and communiticates with the members in other ways
- In charge of in-game 'government affairs' (government type, location of the capital)
- Has the decisive vote in case no decision can be reached on certain issues (maybe a right to veto certain decisions?)

Minister of Domestic Affairs
- Responsible for City Management
- Responsible for Infrastructure (PW)
- Sets Domestic Policies (Worday, Rations, Science, etc)
- Controls the Imperial Expansion agenda (where to found new cities, what to do with conquered cities)
- Naming of cities

Minister of Science, Trade and Diplomacy
- Determines what advances to research
- Conducts diplomacy with other Empires
- Responsible for all (national and international) Emperial Trade
- Since this seems to me a rather 'lightweight' function, could serve as Vice-President as well (i.e. helps President wherever needed, replaces him in case of absence)

Supreme Commander
- In charge of Army, Navy and Airforce (as well as all unconvential units)

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Proposal 2

President
- Empire settings, sliders, government type, sci-rate, pw-rate (little work)
- Running the game (lot of work?)
- Diplomacy

Minister of Defense
- Military Units (lot of work)
- Special units, except settlers (not so much work)

Minister of Domestic Affairs
- City build orders (lot of work)
- City Management, specialists (avg work)
- Science (little work)
- City placement/naming, settlers

Minister of Infrastructure
- Terraforming/Infrastructure (lot of work)
- Trade (little work)

---

Proposal 3

President
- Empire settings, sliders, government type, sci-rate, pw-rate (little work)
- Running the game (lot of work?)

Minister of Defense
- Military Units (lot of work)
- Special units, except settlers (not so much work)

Minister of Domestic Affairs
- City build orders (lot of work)
- City Management, specialists (avg work)
- City placement/naming, settlers

Minister of Infrastructure
- Terraforming/Infrastructure (lot of work)

Minister of Trade, Science and Diplomacy
- Trade (little work)
- Science (little work)
- Diplomacy

---

Proposal 4

President
- The only person who actually physically plays the game
- Distributes the savegames to whoever needs them (government officials, maybe others - TBD)
- Organizes turnchats and communiticates with the members in other ways
- In charge of in-game 'government affairs' (government type, location of the capital)
- Choose ministers from the Parliament
- The minister are subordinat to the President

Parliament
-Group of people chosen by the people from which the President will choose the ministers he wants (Like US democracy).

---

Some notes:
There is still a discussion going about minister-appointed deputies, they aren't official yet, but it seems pretty sure that the ministers will have the option to appoint deputies if their workload is too high.
Also this poll is mostly for the minister position during the first few terms, it is always possible to make an amendment and add a new minister post if it is needed.
The discussion thread can be found here: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=65246

[Lemmy]

hmm, what to vote, 2 or 3, 3 or 2.. oh these choices....so difficult..

[Frozzy]

I can't remember what I voted I think I voted 2, but it could so easily have been 4

[HuangShang]

2 and 3 are almost the same
i go w/ 4

[Pedrunn]

I didnt voted yet because I dont like any the proposal!!!

The Proposal 1 is the most unbalanced. The Minister of Domestic Affairs is too powerfull and the Minister of Science, Trade and Diplomacy is too weak. I dont like this proposal at all.

The proposal 2 is better for the first 150 hundred turns since until them the Minister of Science, Trade and Diplomacy of the two others proposal will be almost useless. And in this proposal this ministery functions is divided among the ohers. But after that time the president will be too powerfull.

The proposal 3 is the one i am more for it but like proposal 2 instead of having the empire settings, sliders, government type, sci-rate, pw-rate controlled by the president i rather have it controlled by the minister of Minister of Infrastructure.

I rather think the president as someone that coordinates and controlls the decisions made by the minister. Discussing every decision that he is against with them therefore even change them. I know every citzen will be able to do this but the president surely is the one who has the last word. So i dont want him to have any specific function but he actually will have all functions.

The proposal 4 is surprising me by the fact is doing so well voted.
This proposal will makes review all Government Changes aticle since no one of the constitution writters were even consider it.
The biggest fear i have about it is that it may make the ministers too subordinated to the president. which is very likely to happen.

[Pedrunn]

Therefore i rather have:

Proposal 5

President
- Running the game and distributes the savegames to whoever needs them (lot of work?)

Minister of Defense
- Military Units (lot of work)
- Special units, except settlers (not so much work)

Minister of Domestic Affairs
- City build orders (lot of work)
- City Management, specialists (avg work)
- City placement/naming, settlers

Minister of Infrastructure
- Terraforming/Infrastructure (lot of work)
- Empire settings, sliders, government type, sci-rate, pw-rate (avg work)

Minister of Trade, Science and Diplomacy
- Trade (little work)
- Science (little work)
- Diplomacy

[H Tower]

i'm wondering of the legality of this poll because the current, if still wholely unofficial amendment poll demands that at least 2/3 of the citizens vote in favor of the poll, AND that 50% of the populace vote.

I predict that not enough people will vote in this poll for it to become consitutionally acceptable.

And while this isn't exactly a constituional amendment, (there's nothing to amend) I believe that it falls under the amendment category since it involves the consitution.

This poll is a great example of why there should be no requirement of a percentage of the population voting.

[Pedrunn]

Me and Locutus agreed that the 1/2 citizens limit was too high so we decreased this limit to 1/3.
And thats the way it is written in the last update of the poll article

Do you think this limit is still high and we should drop this limit thing at all???

Note lets move this discussion to the poll article thread

Note2 to reah the new limit we only need two people other than me in this poll.

[Gilgamensch]

Don't like this poll. I am missing options here.

Especially option 4 has been dropped long time ago and is not even considered by anyone working on the connie, so as Pedrunn stated, if people here would go for option 4, we could dump anything being done on the connie so far.


Edit: Typos (way tooooo early)

[Lemmy]

Then post options you miss, there hasn't been a post in the discussion thread for 3 days now.
I thought i had the options pretty much covered with these proposals.

[Gilgamensch]

My suggestion:

President/Grand Apolyton:
- runs the game
- can make suggestion about changing the government (unless revolution (impeachment) occurred)
- diplomacy
- can poll about sliders (food/work/gold/PW/science)
- can decide about war-/piece-time (military-slider)
- veto right for special actions for special units.
- decides where to place PW-actions.

Minister of Domestic Affairs:
- City management (specialists/queue)
- can request PW to be used for terraforming/improvments (towards president, who will have to poll)
- expansion of cities (where.....)
- takes care of settlers.

Minister of Money:
- advances to be researched
- can request change of slider for science input/gold (towards president, who will have to poll).
- trade-routes
- request towards MDA (minister of Dom......) caravans to be build.

Supreme Commander:
- all military units, unless otherwise noted.

[Gilgamensch]

might look just like minor modifications, but gives the Grand Apolyton more power, than the others, instead of just making him a executer.


And option 4(?), when I remember right, is kind of out of discussion anyway. It is not longer DG, it is Monarchy/Tyranny, at least for me. It wouldn't be us deciding anymore, just the 'leader'.

And for your point, no news: No access to the web on the weekend for me

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

well, perhaps its time to introduce another system we use in our students parliament, making the whole elections a 3step enterprise:

1. elect a president or whatever s/he will be called by majority
2. the president makes a proposal which ministerys there shall be (and other rules of how those ministeries interact, if they seem neccessary) this proposal has to be accepted by a majority vote as well
3. elect the ministers (or whatever they are called) by majority

note: this might be rather timeconsuming of course, if all 3 steps will go through a several day poll, it can lead to having a president a system of ministeries s/he doesn't want and ministers s/he doesn't like.

[Dale]

Option 1: To much like USA.
Option 2: To much like a Monarchy.
Option 4: WOAH! Too open to corruption!
Option 3: Best of a bad bunch.

[Pedrunn]

To Dale,
What do you suggest?
Any critics about my proposal?

To Gilg,
Your peoposal is much more tyranic than proposal 2. You almost gives absolute powers to the president. And i think you are contradictory in some parts having two position with the same or similar function.

To All,
I voted proposal 3 as i declared earlier to be the best. Still i do think that the function:
- Empire settings, sliders, government type, sci-rate, pw-rate (avg work)

Should be done by the minister of infraestructure and not by the president!!!
Therefore, if this proposal wins and we dont have another poll with the new suggestions (for me this one is ok since my proposal is almost the same as proposal 3) i would like to start a AMENDMENT poll to decide the change I want to make