Unit Updater for Super Apolyton Pack 2

[Maquiladora]

Theyre not *very* different, but i agree theyre not exactly along the same path. Kraken's main focus is attack, ranged and movement, which is a strange combination. And the dreadnaught's is attack, ranged and firepower, theyre similar enough to me...

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Martin the Dane
Well actualy that was Maq's idea, and looking at it now, i'm not so sure, it depends on wether or not the Dreadnaught can attack Sea Colonies, it is a bit slower than the Kraken, so ther might be room for both in my navy.

When I looked at the CtP2 poster I noted a lower movement rate and a higher visibility radius, it seems the two units can have a different use, as they are both at the end of the tech tree I don't know if it is worth worrying about upgrading the Kraken. But why not?

[Maquiladora]

If there wasnt an upgrade script i wouldnt bother disbanded my Kraken's for Dreadnaught's, but then again i dont think ive ever got that far. The player can always choose to skip this particular upgrade, but the AI will get it free, so you have to consider that. Dreadnaught is way better though, even if its slower.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by hexagonian
But does the updater SLIC file (at least the version that Tamerlin is using) have the links to those messages? Dale didn't include the updater SLIC in the Apolyton Pack, but based on what he did in that file (APOL_main_str.txt), it looks like he had planned on it at some time.

The Update.slic I am working on is taken from the Cradle mod.

If it can ease the work to be done I can use the method you detailed in your earlier post :

1- Rename the CRA_Update_str.txt to APOL_Update_str.txt...

2- Then open the APOL_Strings.txt and add import "APOL_Update_str.txt" at the bottom.

3- Enable the slic file in the APOL_main.slc by adding the line #include "APOL_Update.slc".

4- (french version only) Copy the APOL_Strings.txt file with the added line and the translated APOL_update_str.txt file into the french folder.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Maquiladora
If there wasnt an upgrade script i wouldnt bother disbanded my Kraken's for Dreadnaught's, but then again i dont think ive ever got that far. The player can always choose to skip this particular upgrade, but the AI will get it free, so you have to consider that. Dreadnaught is way better though, even if its slower.

You get the point. I edit my initial post just after I have finished to type my reply.

But believe me the AI won't have it for free, it will have to pay for it.

[Tamerlin]

A little poll :

Do you want the Ship of the Line to be upgraded to the Ironclad?

[Maquiladora]

What are the alternatives?

The easy to remember path would seem to be,

[... SOL > Ironclad > Battleship]
and
[Destroyer > Plasma Destroyer]

and use Destroyers as specialist air defence units at sea, because theyre both the same.

edit: the destroyers also have active defence, whereas the battleship does not.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Maquiladora
What are the alternatives?

Either the Ship of the Line ends the following Upgrade Path:

Fire Trireme>Ship of the Line

Either the Ship of the Line is integrated in the following Upgrade Path:

Fire Trireme>Ship of the Line>Ironclad>Battleship>Plasma Destroyer

The Destroyer stays a Dead End unit. In my own opinion in Plasma Destroyer the word Destroyer is a misnomer as I don't think the Activision team has thought about the real classification of ships in the various navies.

The destroyers also have active defence, whereas the battleship does not.

True but a more modern unit should be an improvement.

On the other hand the Destroyer could be upgraded to the Plasma Destroyer. Battleship and Destroyer could both be upgraded to Plasma Destroyer as it encompasses all the attributes of the former two ships.

What do you think about this intermediate solution and what the others are thinking about this?

[Maquiladora]

Destroyer > Plasma Destroyer is one of the most obvious upgrades in the game to me, they both have unique abilities for sea units unlike any others, and theyre both called Destroyer, i think they intended this a natural upgrade path.

I prefer the Fire Trireme>Ship of the Line>Ironclad>Battleship, line too, for SOL.

Whether you want to have battleships to plasma destroyers too is upto you, but i think they have different abilities.

[Immortal Wombat]

IMO, Ironclads shouldn't upgrade to Battleships. Sure, they are a direct line of naval evolution as it were, but the upgrade script is meant to simulate a re-fitting of weaponry. You can't make a wooden ship covered in iron carrying cannons, into an iron ship carrying the kind of weaponry the battleship does. It needs a whole new ship design.

Although, the AI does benefit greatly from it (possibly more greatly than any other upgrade, simply because of the sheer cost of a battleship)
- So is it possible to have two different upgrade paths? One for the AI (all necessary upgrades) and one for the human (realistic upgrades).

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Immortal Wombat
IMO, Ironclads shouldn't upgrade to Battleships. Sure, they are a direct line of naval evolution as it were, but the upgrade script is meant to simulate a re-fitting of weaponry. You can't make a wooden ship covered in iron carrying cannons, into an iron ship carrying the kind of weaponry the battleship does. It needs a whole new ship design.

This is what I think about the Ship of the Line upgrade to the Ironclad but I am rather reluctant to suppress the Ironclad upgrade to the Battleship. The first Battleships developped by the Royal Navy were close to the design of the Ironclads: steam powered, similar shape (just take out the sails and replace wood with iron plates) though really much bigger. Look at some pictures of the First World War (if you are a tabletop gamer look at the covers of "The Great War at Sea" wargame serie published by Avalanche Press) and you will see what I mean.

Upgrading the Ironclad to the Battleship would also help simulate the short lifespan these ships had in our history.

Although, the AI does benefit greatly from it (possibly more greatly than any other upgrade, simply because of the sheer cost of a battleship)
- So is it possible to have two different upgrade paths? One for the AI (all necessary upgrades) and one for the human (realistic upgrades).

Interesting idea but the code must be altered and I know nothing of Slic programming.

[Martin the Dane]

If we are talking realism, it is easier form a shipbuilding perspective to clad a wooden hul with iron plates and insert a steam engine (btw. some later wooden warships did have steam engines) than it is to replace the wooden parts of an ironclad with steel.

So from a realism perspective the only upgrade of ships should be Ship of the Line to Ironclad. All the other upgrades requires replacing the hull, wich is not very realistic.

I'm not saying we should stick to realism.

If the unit system had been similar to the SMAC system the upgrades would me much more logical, there you could upgrade armor, engin, weapons etc, but not the "chasis". Well that's not the case but the idea that you could upgrade any foot-soldier to any other higher foot-soldier etc. would be nice, if the AI could be taught how to use it wisely.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Martin the Dane
If we are talking realism, it is easier form a shipbuilding perspective to clad a wooden hul with iron plates and insert a steam engine (btw. some later wooden warships did have steam engines) than it is to replace the wooden parts of an ironclad with steel.

I don't think any Ironclad has been built by simply adding iron plates on a ship of the line.

So from a realism perspective only the upgrade of ships should be Ship of the Line to Ironclad. All the other upgrades requires replacing the hull, wich is not very realistic.

OK, I edit my initial post to show a Ship of the Line can be upgraded to Ironclad...

I'm not saying we should stick to realism.

Which is impossible as far as simulation games are concerned as they must also be fun and balanced. So the Ironclad will upgrade to Battleship... Non mais!

If the unit system had been similar to the SMAC system the upgrades would me much more logical, there you could upgrade armor, engin, weapons etc, but not the "chasis". Well that's not the case but the idea that you could upgrade any foot-soldier to any other higher foot-soldier etc. would be nice, if the AI could be taught how to use it wisely.

I think a little slic programming is needed to achieve this result for CtP2...

[Immortal Wombat]

Dale is working on something similar, though less detailed in his AoM mod. Upgrade bit-by-bit, using the same sprite, name and so forth.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Immortal Wombat
Dale is working on something similar, though less detailed in his AoM mod. Upgrade bit-by-bit, using the same sprite, name and so forth.

Usually I don't like to play against an AI which is not applying the same rules as the Human player though I understand the AI must be allowed to cheat if we want it to be a worthy opponent.

I would prefer to double the cost of the Upgrades for the Human Player as we are, hopefully, better managing our economical resources and are thus generating far more money than the AI. But I have not the lesser idea on how it can be achieved.