Retreat option is just one big bug

[SMIFFGIG]

Well other than the fact the AI is unable to use the option granting the human play a stupidly big advantage. You can abuse the retreat system so easily

eg. I havent got a spy so i just attack a city and retreat immediatly and hey presto, i can see every single unit in the city and what they all are, plus my one unit is still alive as i retreated straight away. There is no morale system in the game, that would help a tiny bit but still no where near enough. I think if possible the retreat option should ONLY be available for defending players (im not sure if this can be done) and even better the current retreat system (that activision must have tottaly rushed into CtP2) total scrapped. Could it be done randomly using SLIC. This would be more realistic (random) as in battles there aint 100% chance of a successful retreat 100% of the time as currently is. Also it would make the stupid spying/retreat bug obsolete.

Thanks for reading and Merry Xmas

-James

[Maquiladora]

Full agreement there smiff. The AI doesnt use it so its just another advantage for the human. Thats why if your playing any game you should play it in LAN or MP mode where retreat isnt available.

Im sure it can be taken out of the normal game too, no? Just get rid of the retreat button in the battleview.

[HuangShang]

wiat i agree a little w/ SMIFFGIG, but i'd wnat the retreat still there

[mapfi]

Even without the retreat option you only have to sacrifice one little weak unit to look what's inside a city. That's the way it's done in MP.

[Martin Gühmann]

Unfortunatly there is no retreat event or function available in slic, therefore the only sollution would be to remove the retreat button from the battleview, that is no problem. Well in Single Player game you could play fair. So using the retreat button in SP is your decission, for example I don't use it.

-Martin

[Locutus]

Well, if you don't like it, just don't use it (like me). Noone's forcing you to press that button if a battle is going badly...

[SMIFFGIG]

Well, if you don't like it, just don't use it (like me). Noone's forcing you to press that button if a battle is going badly...

Yea fair enough but i think it should be maybe taken out in some mods cause thats like saying dont build sea cities if you dont like the sea city bug

-James

[HuangShang]

whats the sea city bug yo?

[Martin Gühmann]

The sea city sprite bug is the bug that causes sea cities to use the sprites of land cities. A very nasty bug if you ever build sea cities in CTP1.

And by the way for all of you who haven't voted in the Top Games Series Poll for CTP1/2, yet. You can still do until the end of this year. And don't forget to vote in the Poll about single Gmaes not Series, CTP still needs you.

-Martin

[Engineer_J]

Don't you mean Sea Cites in CTP 2? I thought they looked right in CTP. Did this bug ever get fixed in any of the mods?

[Pedrunn]

I dont remember ever going to until the end of the game to check this bug.
You guy may even be surprised that i have heard about this sea city bug in my almost 2 years of modding but never knew what was it until now. Thanks to explanation

This is a wild shot but i do know that it is hard coded the connection between sea city graphics and the age. Since the designers of the mods must have had once an idea to have a different type of graphic for cities in mountains.
Check this part of the agecitystyle:

AGE_FIVE_STYLE_ONE {
	Sprites { Type 0 MinSize 0  MaxSize 8  Sprite 127 }
	Sprites { Type 0 MinSize 9  MaxSize 20 Sprite 128 }
	Sprites { Type 0 MinSize 21 MaxSize 36 Sprite 129 }
	Sprites { Type 0 MinSize 37 MaxSize 99 Sprite 130 }

	Sprites { Type 1 MinSize 0  MaxSize 8  Sprite 89 }
	Sprites { Type 1 MinSize 9  MaxSize 14 Sprite 90 }
	Sprites { Type 1 MinSize 15 MaxSize 20 Sprite 91 }
	Sprites { Type 1 MinSize 21 MaxSize 29 Sprite 92 }
	Sprites { Type 1 MinSize 30 MaxSize 36 Sprite 93 }
	Sprites { Type 1 MinSize 37 MaxSize 44 Sprite 94 }
	Sprites { Type 1 MinSize 45 MaxSize 56 Sprite 95 }
	Sprites { Type 1 MinSize 57 MaxSize 99 Sprite 96 }
}

As you can see there are two "types" of cities: type 0 and type 1.
The type 0 cities are the regular land terrain cities we settle at first. But the mess start when Type 1 comes. The type 1 city is hard coded to until the fourth age have the graphics given to cities settled in moutains. I discover that when i once said: "Why to have the sea city graphics only after the fourth age if i could have them since at the begining. This may be useful but i will do it in case i make some change in the future." And i did it. I set all ages of all city styles to have sea city graphics (Type 1 cities). Try to imagined my surprising face when i saw that the cities i settled in mountains had sea city graphics. I just thought. "Cool! I know where the designers were aiming at. Have different graphics for mountains would be awesome". Since we had no good graphics in are scarce community for mountains this idea of mine was just forgoten (Try to imagine my bored face when i had to remove all sea city graphics of all ages of all city styles ). Now when i heard about what this bug is about a lamp lighted on my head

Is anything i tell you here is making any connection with the Sea City Bug?

[Tamerlin]

I still can't figure what the sea city bug is as I have never seen it.

A far as I am concerned I have never used the retreat button, but I think this option should only be available for the defender. I have played a lot of wargames and retreat is generally not allowed when you are attacking.

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by Engineer_J
Don't you mean Sea Cites in CTP 2? I thought they looked right in CTP. Did this bug ever get fixed in any of the mods?

Yes I mean CTP2 otherwise you couldn't consider it as very nasty bug if you ever saw the correct style in CTP1.

Originally posted by Tamerlin
I still can't figure what the sea city bug is as I have never seen it.

To figure this out you could start a new game using original game from ModSwapper and put some cities on the sea and you should see how the sea cities should look. Then give youself the enabling advance for Sea Cities and Undersea Tunnels and look what happens, if the style does not change just add a pop to the city and you should see that the city looks like a land city, don't use Cradle, ApolytonPack or CityMod2 as your basic mod I added for every style seperate sea city graphics definations for the early ages unfortunatly they are equal to the land definitions.

-Martin

[Maquiladora]

Isnt the sea city bug caused by maglevs? It gives a sea city a maglev tile imp under the city so it thinks its a land city? Like it gives land cities roads underneath at the start of the game. They just made a mistake and gave sea cities maglevs instead of undersea tunnels.

Or am i thinking of something else...

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by Maquiladora
Isnt the sea city bug caused by maglevs? It gives a sea city a maglev tile imp under the city so it thinks its a land city? Like it gives land cities roads underneath at the start of the game. They just made a mistake and gave sea cities maglevs instead of undersea tunnels.

Or am i thinking of something else...

No the undersea tunnels are the problem. Every tile that has an undersea tunnel has also the abilty that land units can move on it so for the game these tiles are land tiles first. You can see it on the mini map if you switch off the display of terrain types.

-Martin