Hex's new potential project - WOTR

[J Bytheway]

Try the map at:

http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/m/middleearth.html

There's no settlements on that one, but there are on the more detailed maps you can reach by clicking on the regions (though probably not all the maps are there yet, but Gondor is).

Edit: On further investigation only Gondor and Mordor are mapped in more detail, but I hope that helps at least.

Edit again: and Eriador too, and some of the other entries mention cities (though not as much or as many as might be hoped...).

[Immortal Wombat]

1. Sure - which wonders, which units?

2. Alliances cannot be fixed AFAIK, but regard, and trust can be set to huge levels.

3. Email me with details. This is quite easy. Oh, and if you want specific cities, I guess I'll need their map locations or names, but that means strict instructions not to change names, and allows potential for cheating.

4. Yup, need city locations for that one.

5. **search in progress**

6. There may be better maps around, the one I have bookmarked is here
Actually, this is even better: http://www.users.wineasy.se/aragorn/.../tolkien/maps/

[Immortal Wombat]

Hmm, this should be easy to fill in and alter to your wishes for the units.

List of Cities: http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/placciti.html

Nearer the bottom it lists by Civ, but doesn't give a geographical location for them. Most should appear on the maps. Make sure you get ones from the correct age though, they're all in together

[Ãskallin]

This maps are nice

but if you had the atlas of middle earth(i have him but i don´t got a scanner )

http://www.tolkien-archives.com/maps.shtml

[hexagonian]

Thanks all, this info is invaluable. The map I needed the most was the one posted by iskallin, as that one is a color coded terrain map, and I can use that one to lay out the base world.

I had seen the Atlas at a bookstore - it was $25. I probably will go ahead and get it, because it will have all the info for city placement that I will need.

Ben
Thanks for the SLIC - I will be tackling the SLIC related stuff when I get all the base text files completed.

Last night, I had a slight problem with the dual tech tree setup at the start of the game, which I was able to work through in an all-too-obvious solution.

[Turambar]

If you want me to work on the GL stuff then post/email me a list of what you want entries for and I'll get started .

My email address is turambar6@lycos.co.uk

[Immortal Wombat]

Elves:

Rivendell (Imlandris)
Lorien
Thranduil
Grey Havens

Dwarves:

Erebor (the lonely mountain)
Iron Hills
Northern Mountains

Hobbits:

Hobbiton
Buckland
Michel Delving
Tuckborough
Crickhollow
Frogmorton
Bywater
Whitfurrows
Oatbarton
Overhill
Stock
Deephollow
Longbottom
Little Delving

-- There aren't many Dwarf settlements named AFAIK, and the elves were all leaving by then, so I think there were just those 4 main cities (though I'm sure Turambar can correct me if I'm wrong).

You might want to look at Harlan's Civ2 LOTR scenario - even if you don't have Civ2, the city names are in a text file.

[hexagonian]

Well, the aidata files are done, and all of the conventional units have their stats entered. The final thing that I have to do is figure out the leader stats and enter in that data, and all of the text files will be basically done.

I'm hoping to have a working map put together by mid- next week...then the trick is to get the setup somewhat balanced. My target is to have a test game out in 2 weeks or so.

I'm still debating whether to have the initial test as a two civ game, though more from the standpoint to make sure that there are no easy exploits or ways to win the Scenario. If I can get a tough setup with a two-player game, then using multiple civs will make for even a tougher game.

Part of the problem is that most people who will play this are already familiar with the map and Mordor's setup, so the setup has to be especially hard.

Opinions anyone????

Turmaber, let me know what you think of the tree/units/wonders, so that I can finalize those files.

Thanks for the cities Ben - I was hoping that there would be more of the Elf/Dwarf cities - though I cannot recall any others other than those from the Silmarillion. This does make for potentially hard games, especially since players will not be able to build new cities - so playing the elves and taking on the might of Mordor with 4 cities 'should' be hard.

I tried downloading the SLIC file but got a 'missing page' Is this the same file as the Wonderunits file, or does this file have the added feature of disbanding a Leader for a new one.

Actually, I can use the Updater file too, but a Wonder SLIC is a more elegant way to do it.

[Locutus]

Dave,
What are your plans for the beta? Public or closed? For a scenario I personally think that your original idea of keeping the files within a small group of testers is the best way to go. With people like John, Ben, Turambar and maybe Ãskallin you have a good group of people who can give you useful feedback on 'historic' accuracy, gameplay and help you out with modding (read: SLIC). Maybe one more experienced playtester (without modding or Tolkien background) would be useful, but as you pointed out, much of the challenge in a scenario like this comes from not knowing much about it, so replayability is limited. With a public beta you won't have much of an audience left once the scenario is ready for release, so don't go public until it's (as good as) ready...

Don't count on being able to finish this in two weeks, but just because it might take a month or two (or maybe even longer), doesn't mean the rest of us can't wait until it's done...

[J Bytheway]

If your scenario starts early enough you could have another Dwarf settlement in Moria (The one Balin founded between the Hobbit and LOTR which Gimli talks about at the Coucil of Elrond) - but that settlement should probably start almost overrun by the orcs.

Also, I think there were Dwarves in the Blue mountains (wasn't that where Thorin and co. were coming from at the start of the Hobbit?) There were certainly some there before the War of Wrath, and I suspect some Dwarves remained. But the biggest settlements should probably be in the Iron Hills.

IMHO, the elves shouldn't have a chance of defeating Mordor alone - their influence was almost totally insignificant by that time outside of their realms. IIRC (I think I read about these in the Atlas - that's very good on the battles - it even gives you numbers of troops as far as possible) there were assaults by Easterlings and other minions of Sauron on Lorien, Erebor and Mirkwood at about the same time Minas Tirith was attacked which never really get mentioned in LOTR - Sauron really did have an awful lot of troops.

[Immortal Wombat]

I tried downloading the SLIC file but got a 'missing page' Is this the same file as the Wonderunits file, or does this file have the added feature of disbanding a Leader for a new one.

Its new code. That's wierd though, it works for me.
Anyway, this is it:

int_T	FIRST_UNIT[];
int_T	END_UNIT[];
int_t	METAMORPH_WONDER[];

void_f	InitWonders()
{
	FIRST_UNIT[0] = UnitDB(UNIT_GANDALF_THE_GREY);
	FIRST_UNIT[1] = UnitDB(UNIT_BLACK_RIDER);

	END_UNIT[0] = UnitDB(UNIT_GANDALF_THE_WHITE);
	END_UNIT[1] = UnitDB(UNIT_NAZGUL);

	METAMORPH_WONDER[0] = WonderDB(WONDER_GANDALF_THE_WHITE);
	METAMORPH_WONDER[1] = WonderDB(WONDER_NAZGUL_EMERGE);
}


HandleEvent(BeginTurn) 'init_metamorposes_wonders' pre {
	InitWonders();
	DisableTrigger('init_metamorposes_wonders');
}

HandleEvent(CreateWonder) 'gandalf the white' pre{
	int_T	i;
	int_t	j;
	int_T	tmpPlayer;
	city_t	tmpCity;
	unit_t	tmpUnit;
	location_t	tmpLoc;

	tmpPlayer = city[0].owner;

	for(i=0; i < METAMORPH_WONDER.#; i = i + 1){
		if(value[0] == METAMORPH_WONDER[i]){
			j = i;
		}
	}
	for(i = 0; i < tmpPlayer.units; i = i + 1){
		GetUnitByIndex(tmpPlayer, i, tmpUnit);
		if(tmpUnit == FIRST_UNIT[j]){
			tmpLoc = tmpUnit.location;
			Event:DisbandUnit(tmpUnit);
			CreateUnit(tmpPlayer, END_UNIT[j], tmpLoc, 0);
		}
	}
}

I haven't tested it yet, but it should run similarly to the updater SLIC. Fill in the unit and wonder arrays exactly like the updater arrays, only with wonders instead of advances.

[Martin Gühmann]

Event:DisbandUnit(tmpUnit);

Please Ben if you post slic code disable the smilies in your post or post it marked as php-code.

Event:DisbandUnit(tmpUnit); 

Edit: I thought php would fix the smily problem, but obviously it doesn't, so you have disable them, at least you can use php-code for the Great Library.

Actual it is not the optimal sollution but better then the first. That's make me wonder if it would be possible for Marcos to add slic code with slic speciffic syntax highlighting.

-Martin

[hexagonian]

The plan has has always been to keep the beta test private. In fact, I'm hoping for the SLICers to make suggestions for some in game events and triggers that can be developed over time and added in.

The people suggested are good for me - do you also want to be one of the testers Wouter????

One of my goals is to have all the foundation files ready to go by next week (not any new SLICS though), as well as a rough map.

One of the main reasons why I am leaning toward the initial two civ setup is to work out the inbalances and positioning of troops/cities, and this will be the simplest setup to do so. As long as I have a copy of the base map without cities/units and so forth, I can easily create a variety of maps as feedback comes back in. I have a good picture in my mind what I want to do.

As for the final product, I do not have a definite timetable, but I do want the public release to be a polished product - that much is for sure. I want to avoid the things I had happen with early versions of Cradle.

One final question??? Since this is going to be a scenario, would it be better to use the basic default scenario structure that shipped with the game, or do it through Modswapper. To be honest, I have not tried doing a premade scenario through Modswapper, so any suggestions would be helpful.

[Immortal Wombat]

Oh well, its readable.

The most annoying is < tags that try to turn half the SLIC into HTML

[Locutus]

Use [code] tags and 'Disable Smilies in This Post' solves most of the SLIC display problems. The only real problem is that you'll have to manually insert hard line-breaks every eighty characters or so... but vBB still handles this a thousand times better than those stupid old uBB boards, like we used in the old days (I'm getting old )...

Originally posted by hexagonian
The plan has has always been to keep the beta test private.

Oh, okay. I was under the impression that you were considering a public beta, I guess I misunderstood. I'm not sure how good good your testers (apart from IW) are with SLIC but I yeah, more SLIC events are would be great and Harlan proved to me that you don't necessarilly need to have knowledge of SLIC to be able to make good suggestions (sometimes it's even a disadvantage), but it does help. I think you're okay in this respect.

The people suggested are good for me - do you also want to be one of the testers Wouter????

Not unless you really want me too I have a very busy schedule, my staff member duties, real-life, I already promised to help out tigger with his Dutch War scenario (which is also a subject which appeals more to me, as much as I like Tolkien) and I have a lot of ideas of my own that I would like to work on (H2H diplomacy, the goold old HotW mod, SLIC documentation, a SLIC database tool, etc). So if you want to, I wouldn't mind trying to help out where I can, but if you would just as well take someone else in my place, I'd rather decline...

One final question??? Since this is going to be a scenario, would it be better to use the basic default scenario structure that shipped with the game, or do it through Modswapper. To be honest, I have not tried doing a premade scenario through Modswapper, so any suggestions would be helpful.

Well, you'll be forced to use the scenario-setup because of the pre-made map, so I guess you don't have much choice. Unless you want to put all files except the map in the regular files folders, but I'm not sure if there's an advantage to that...