Civ 3 mod for CtP 2?

[Pedrunn]

Ooops forgot the citywindow file to add in the ctp2_data/english/uidata.

[Immortal Wombat]

That is fantastic Pedrunn Really great. Working out the repercussions of the culture is the next task...

[Locutus]

Originally posted by Pedrunn
What you thought it was the hardest is solved Locutus.

No, actually, quite to the contrary, that was the easiest part. What you did was not very hard at all, I think I've done more complicated stuff than that myself (although that was a very long time ago, might even have been for CtP1). The part where the fixed number '41' is replaced by an actual SLIC variable is the hardest part, I don't think *this* part can be done. I would absolutely love it if you could prove me wrong though... Just replacing '41' with '{Culturepoints}' probably isn't going to do the trick (although I must admit I've never actually tried)...

But it's very good to see you're studying the UI files though, there's a lot of good work that can be done in this area and so far noone really accomplished much (aside from the diplo-parchments, but basically that wasn't very hard to do - just a matter of replacing one graphics file with another).

[Solver]

Very good, Perdun! Now I believe we can implement one of two parts of Civ 3 here. Obviously, the EventHandler should take place after construction of a building, considering whether that is one of culture producing buildings/ is it a Wonder. If returns true, culture value being added to the city. And, at the BeginTurn event, total culture value should be incremented.

Now, a bit more questions. Is there an ability to trigger victory with one hundred thousand culture points for the entire civ? I believe there is a victory trigger. Next, is there any way to make the cities revert? Again, I believe yes, for there's a city.owner property. Now we'll also need to work on the maths to determine the chance of a city revolting.

[Locutus]

Well, the UI is still a problem, but I guess messageboxes will do, at least for testing purposes.

Re: winning: I think GameOver(1, 1) makes the human player win, GameOver(1, 2) makes him loose (might be the other way around though, see SLIC docs).

Re: cities changing owner: yes, there's a GiveCity event. See Alexander scenario for examples of it's usage.

[Solver]

Hehe, thanks Locutus .

I guess then the code should be like this:

BuldingBuilt
If bulding = Shrine or Theater or .... culture +x ... if Arena or Academy or.... culture +y, for city.

I like it that, in Civ, when at peace one of my concerns is building Colosseums and Cathedrals even at cities that wouldn't need those for happiness purposes, just to bump my culture up.

[Locutus]

Yeah, something like that. And also add something to a variable (array-element) that stores of how much culture should be given to a city each turn.

The only problem I see with this code is for reloading SLIC: if you reload it, all variables are reset and culture is for all cities reset to 0. Normally not a big deal but in case of succession games and stuff it might get problematic. Shouldn't stop us from making this code, but we should keep in mind that this will create problems in testing and the whole culture feature should always be easy to disable for succession games and the like...

Yes, Culture itself is a nice concept, makes the game much less warmongish if properly implemented. Maybe we could even give an additional culture-bonus for very happy cities (in the green)? That would put people for the additional dilemma of choosing for collection of more resources (food/prod/comm) or more culture; and make celebrations more useful... just an idea...

[Solver]

I like the happiness idea! I think it should work both ways:

city with celebrations == bonus culture
cities with more than x culture per turn == plus y happiness


a thought: we acutally need two counters for the city UI: one for total culture of a city, one for a culture per turn meter.

[Solver]

A quicknote... in CtP 1, when omitting Robotics, I used to build the both +5 Happiness wonders... amusing, celebratings everywhere!

[Pedrunn]

Locutus,
I guess i exagerate a bit but are you sure we cant have those?
Maybe a Hamdlevent(BeginTurn) calculate tht, or

OpenInitialCityInterface(city_t)
Generated when a city is initialized, after all population is added.

whatever that is,
Anything!?!

[Solver]

I bet someone just should try the Culture: {culturepts} thing in practice...

[Aqtaca]

i really don't want to brag,
but i think the culture concept is wrongly approached in civ 3

the civilizations that had high cultural level didn't usually achieve capturing with it other countries that had low culture.

On the contrary, Mongolian nomads conquered China, mountanous Persians- Babylonia, bunch of tribes called Hixi-Egypt
And barbarian hordes overrun the Western Roman Empire...
Sure, these civs conquered many others, but with weapons.

I think we should try implemeting two new concepts that had far greater importance than mere culture.

I'm talking about religion and nation...

[Pedrunn]

Yep, aqtaca. But those civs with smaller culture conquered the ones with high culture military. But in most cases the culture of the higher cultured civ remained. After Macedonians (Alexander the Great) conquered Greece shouldnt we say that they were assimilated culturally although they kept the political control over the conquereds? Same thing with Mongols and Chineses. Or Hicsos and Egyptian. Or Barbarians and Catholic Romans.

We see the great nation impose their culture over the less firmly cultured ones. Shouldnt we say that many empires were culturally englobated in the case of the Ameriaca Way of Life or the URSS expansion.

Maybe take over a whole city may be a little over the edge but as see it is the best way to represent in the game.
But we havent showed the card yet. The community had no discussion yet about it. We dont even know who will make the code or even if it will be (A i see Strategic Resources are more important, anyway).

[Pedrunn]

DP

[Aqtaca]

I may have a solution for strategic resources...

it is taken from Alpha Centauri
if you remember it was possible to build a unit that would exploit resources from a location that wasn't part of your empire. It could be beyond your borders but not within the enemy borders.

Building colonies in civ3 can also be an option, but i don't see why would it have to be connected by road to a city.

Now, we must make a difference between strategic resources.

Stone
Copper
Copper; Tin; Zink- these are the metals that are required for Bronze (ratio ~85:10:5)
Iron ore
Coal
Iron ore + Coal gives Steel
Oil
Gas perhaps
Uranium
As for plasma, there is no resource- i imagine such weapons would require just small ammounts of it, ammounts producable in a lab.

Stone can be found everywhere, but the one you need for architecture can only be found in hills or mountains.
so, without those two, you'd have to import it.
Someone mentioned ancient Iraqi civilization that used mud to make bricks. Those were Sumerians, but they too imported stone from the mountains on the East. Naturaly, this import stone was used for temples and palaces only.
Even Egypt used those unbaked mud bricks for constructing houses. Only temples were made of stone. And occasionaly a palace or two.

Copper itself can be used for making tools, weapons or coins.

Later was discovered bronze, alloy of Copper, Tin and Zink. It was much more solid and powerful

Until came Iron. Iron in freestate can only be found in Western Greenland and in meteorites that were exposed to huge heat during their fall through our atmosphere. It is usually found in its ores hematite, geothite, magnetite, limonite, siderite,... tied to other elements and minerals. Once people discovered how to process iron ore, they got pure iron. Sharp, deadly and efficient.

Centuries passed, iron remained the best metal until we learned how to make steel. You just need to add carbon into steel, burn it and melt it.

Oil... i'll get back to this later, it's very specific.

So, all these resources apart from Tin and Zink are required in huge ammounts.

Uranium is rare, but it's also required in relatively small ammounts.

Now, the same source of massively used resource like iron, copper, coal,... could be used only by one nation. either by a colony, or by a unit trader...

however resources like stone and uranium could be exploited by more nations. In case of stone- you have entire mountain of it- why not share it with others, especially if it's outside your borders.
Uranium, too. It can be found only in certain places but you need so little, that it is shareable as well.

Now, oil is tricky. it's used in vast ammounts, found in few places, but where it is found it's found in huge ammounts. i don't know if it could be shared by civilizations. In the reality, it can be shared (like Gulf oil), traded, and it can be selfishly kept. but i don't know how to do it.
It can be found in deserts, yes, but also in Jungles, swamps, gleciers, tundras, even grasslands and plains. on sea floor as well, we should introduce oil sources in the sea.
And ecological catastrophies should happen occasionaly around it, causing food levels to fall.


Now, those were unregenerative resources.
you exploit them and they cease to exist at some point.

Regenerative resources are trees, animals, humans.

You need forests for timber/lumber
Horses for cavalry
Elephants for elephant... units?
now, although they are restorable, if you overuse them they can be exausted as well.

Mountain Lebanon was once densely covered by forests of cedar tree. But phoenician kings built fleet, temples and exported it in huge ammounts. Lebanon is a desert mountain today.

In prehistoric America horses existed, but humans that were predecessors of Indians hunted it for food so much it became extinct all until Europeans brought their horses.