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The Defense of France Reconsidered

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  • The Defense of France Reconsidered

    Background

    It occurred to me that almost the only people left around here are those that are interested in modding. So even though this is a sort of Beta version I thought I'd put it out so that those interested can have a look at it and maybe give me some feedback.

    The original version of the WW2 scenario appeared on the Apolyton site on Dec 23, 00 and it's clear that it was rushed out as a Christmas present for us. There's a couple of unimplemented units (British and German paratroopers) and some very strange settings in Strategies.txt. I haven't tried to implement the paratroopers (the German bomber has the ability to carry them, but paratroopers coming out of a Stuka ???). I did change the British UnitSupportPercent from 0.15 to 0.60. The British were given a substantial number of units (maybe too many from a historical point of view) but with the original setting they spent the better part of the game disbanding them. I also changed the map, adding a few cities so that the Germans and British in particular can better support their large armies.

    I also added some of the good modifications to the text files that we've learnt about in the ensuing months. However, the main changes to the Activision mod were brought about by re-SLICing it.

    Here's some of the comments on the original scenario:

    Umm, I thought France was supposed to FALL in WWII. When I played France's side (on hard of course) not only did I not lose ONE city, but I ended up conquering Germany, Netherlands, and Belgium! The scenerio wasn't even to July yet but it ended it anyway because I think once you take care of Germany it ends it automatically. Did anyone else find France's side real easy to win?

    I found it fairly easy to play both Germans and French. When I played France I just decided to defend France and that was it. Germany took the Netherlands and all but one of Belgium's cities by the time I got bored with it (I think mid-June). The English had started taking some of the cities from Germany, including Saarbrucken, by then, so I knew it was over for Germany.

    I also thought the simulation was way too easy. I have suggestions to solve the ease of being the French. Just add two or three more German cities, with about 10 German Units. That will make it harder for you to stop the Germans
    I've added more German and British cities, and more German units. I assumed they're bound to lose a bunch of units in conquering the Low Countries, so they better have more to start out with.

    ok, i played the germans and the french. Even on the hardest level it was to easy. With the French i even invaded germany. But the new units and the new tile improvments are great. though it is a pitty that there arent any infantry units. on other thing why isnt there a way to capture fortifications? or is there?
    I've added some code that simulates the capturing of forts.(Late addition, it may not be working yet.)

    This scenario is an utter copout. I remember playing the WWII scenario in Civ2 and it was absolutely and utterly breathtaking (at the time). It was the first time I played a Civ game and I was engrossed for many, many hours on that scenario! Sid and Co. put so much effort into their WWII scenario. Activision's attempt is as weak as p*ss and utterly boring.

    I played as the French once and won without too much difficulty. However the real disappointment was the map. I expected as least the war in Europe, and got only the Fall of France. A mediocre scenario.
    In a way this is the bottom line. When you think of WW2, the idea that the French might have beaten the Germans in 1940 is not something that comes immediately to mind. But it was there, as someone once said, and it seemed like a good opportunity to try and develop an AI that could conduct a proper Blitzkrieg. IIRC, when Harlan did his WW2 scenario for Civ2, he said that you had to play as the Germans because the useless Civ2 AI (!!!) couldn't do anything interesting. What I was really looking forward to was using the modifications I've made to the CTP2 AI in an Operation Barbarossa scenario, but I guess it might be too late for that.

    But as far as this scenario goes, don't expect a great game. There's only one thing you should look forward to: A really aggressive AI that uses it's air units much more effectively than ever before in CTP2. (Except that the French don't have radar so, by and large, you actually won't see them.)

    New Historical Events

    The original scenario has a 'Wilhemina event': if Rotterdam is captured by the Germans within 6 turns (i.e., they capture Queen Wilhelmina) all of Holland falls. I've added two more of these type of events:

    The Verdun Event: If Verdun falls all nearby French troops surrender and the Germans get
    the Maginot line. This is meant to simulate the surrender of the French Third, Fifth, and
    Eighth armies who were surrounded SW of Verdun.

    The Dunkirk Event: If the Germans are threatening Dunkirk, the British Expeditionary force
    should pull back to near Dunkirk. (Actually, I'm not sure if this is working the way it
    should be.) If Dunkirk falls to the Germans, the British should retreat to their island
    and basically thereafter are out of the game. All you'll get is RAF support. Also the
    Germans get the three continental British forts and their associated airbases.

    Victory Conditions

    The Germans can win by capturing Paris. At this point you have the option of continuing the game, in which case the original German victory conditions hold.

    I've left the French 'victory' conditions open. I don't really know what should constitute a French victory in this scenario.

    Bugs

    Occasionally, you will get a crash with an "In object AGKillUnit_F ..." error message. It weren't me, guv. This is a function that Tony Evans imported from his Alexander scenario and I can't figure out why it doesn't work here either. Other bugs were reported in the above thread, but I haven't seen them.

    What You Need

    If you don't already have it, you need the whole 12meg Activision scenario; it's available from Apolyton. I've tried to minimize the files I've used so that you can download it from here. First, though, copy and paste ...\Scenarios\WW2\scen0001 so that you get a folder called Scenarios\WW2\copy of scen0001. Then rename 'copy of scen0001' to 'scen0002'. Now download the following two zips and extract them into Scenarios\WW2\scen0002. When prompted to overwrite, do it.

    Finally, the Scenarios\WW2 folder contains a text file called packlist.txt. Open it and change the number "2" to "3".
    Attached Files

  • #2
    Here's the map:
    Attached Files

    Comment


    • #3
      I think it is time to submit this to the Apolyton Directory, Peter.

      -Martin
      Civ2 military advisor: "No complaints, Sir!"

      Comment


      • #4
        After 10 months, a response.

        Actually, I later discovered that there's a very serious bug in it. It's not safe to generate the MoveUnits event: the army will move but it leaves behind an invisable zone of control that prevents anybody from moving into it. Since nobody ever showed any interest in this scenario, I never bothered to fix it.

        If anyone is interested, I could fix it now but this was more or less just an experiment to see if it was possible to program the AI to conduct a Blitzkrieg. I don't think it's really very playable.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Peter Triggs
          After 10 months, a response.

          Actually, I later discovered that there's a very serious bug in it. It's not safe to generate the MoveUnits event: the army will move but it leaves behind an invisable zone of control that prevents anybody from moving into it. Since nobody ever showed any interest in this scenario, I never bothered to fix it.
          That is really a very serious bug, I used this MoveUnits event in my BetterAI.slc, too. But in the end I dropped it, because this is the very last event in the army move process, the MoveUnits event has no legality checks, the result is that you can move units into foreign cities without attacking them, use it to move an army to a place that is already filled with 12 units, the additional ones will die, probably you can use it also to move land units into the water, I didn't tryed it, but I alraedy saw units on the wrong side of the cost, and in the end you can move units into a location that contains already foreign units then you can merge all these units from different civs into one army, unfortunatly the game will crash if this army should move again. In the end I replaced this event by MovePathOrder or MoveToOrder so far as I know they work both.

          Originally posted by Peter Triggs
          If anyone is interested, I could fix it now but this was more or less just an experiment to see if it was possible to program the AI to conduct a Blitzkrieg. I don't think it's really very playable.
          Actual this was a time IIRC when the forum was empty, but of course 10 downloads is also a number. Most people who possible would like to try it weren't here when you posted it. And if you would add it to the Apolyton Directory the Probability would also be increased that someone will reply to it, maybe marked as a beta version in the 'Poly Dir would also make things clear.

          -Martin
          Civ2 military advisor: "No complaints, Sir!"

          Comment


          • #6
            How did I miss this the first time?

            Hmm, I hope I'll have time to check this out sometime soon...
            Administrator of WePlayCiv -- Civ5 Info Centre | Forum | Gallery

            Comment


            • #7
              Well, finally got around to trying it (in German - somehow seems appropriate ) and all I can say is:

              I totally got my ass kicked... twice... I lost Paris within 30 turns in both games I played (the Netherlands were gone within 5 turns and Belgium within 10, in spite of strong British and French support) I'm not sure if it's even possible to win this scenario: the Germans are pretty much invincible and extremely aggressive! Blitzkrieg as it was meant to be! Anyone who thinks Civ3's AI is good should give this a try!

              I didn't have time to study the AI and SLIC files, how much of this could be converted for use in the regular game? If enough of it can be reused, we could truly have a killer-AI! But even if only 1% could be converted, that would still be a very nice improvement...

              The one caveat is defence: the German cities (Saarbrucken, Bremen, etc) were completely empty at first, in my first game I could capture 3 of these cities without loosing a single unit, before the Germans started to defend themselves (in my second game my timing was poor and they could move some panzers into one of their cities just in time, and the location of that city was such that it blocked access to the others (which were probably still undefended). But the Dutch/Belgian cities the Germans had conquered were defended reasonably well, so it should be fixable...

              Also, the Germans were a bit too focussed on attack, retaking their old cities didn't seem like much of a priority - they were really focussed on a single target, a little too focussed perhaps. For this scenario this may work (although it would still be more realistic if they would try to fend off any invasions into Die Heimat), but if any of this were be reused, it probably needs to be tweaked a bit. But other than that, the Germans were kicking ass and chewing bubble-gum - and pretty soon they were all outta gum!

              Of course, this is nice for one or more turns, but if it's indeed true what I suspect that this scenario can't be won, that gets old soon. To fix this, you may want to tune down the stats of those German tanks a little: a stack of 10 German tanks took my heavily-defended (or so I thought) Paris without breaking a sweat, they only lost 1 or 2 units. It takes 2 French tanks to disable 1 German Panzer - and the Germans have many, many stacks of tanks while the French start out with only 10-15 tanks... (I know this is realistic, but gameplay goes before realism...)

              After loosing twice, it came to me that it would actually be kinda fun to add another chapter to this scenario: the Battle of Britain. Once France is lost (that's pretty much inevitable as it is), all English cities and units change owner and you continue to play on as Churchill of the English (too bad you can't change the name of the civs and leaders mid-game...) and you must fend off any German invasions until the attack on Pearl Harbor (or something like that). Of course, this means the Germans should get/start building a lot more air units once this happens, and their build lists should include a lot of submarines, troop transports and other naval units. Also, more specialized code for bombing runs, air raids and, once naval and air dominance is achieved, naval invasions, would have to be written as well. But if someone has the time and inclination to make such a thing (yeah, right), that would be *really* cool...
              Administrator of WePlayCiv -- Civ5 Info Centre | Forum | Gallery

              Comment

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