Introducing the Medieval Pack II v1.0 Alpha

[tdean001]

A simple question, but has anyone tried playing the scenarios that came with the game and loading a second save game? In order to test this properly, it would have to be done before installing Med Mod and WWII patches, but that would allow us to narrow the scope of this bug down....

[preacherman]

I have played several games without any mods added. using world map and they reload fine.It seems that it might not be loading the data base. It will load fine if you first load the mod then do a load game and load the saved game.

[WesW]

I think Preacherman may be right, in that you have to start or load a scenario game, then load the one you "really" want to play, in order to avoid the bug.

This procedure is how you get the correct civ name and leader to appear on the new game screen. You have to start a scenario game to get all the scenario files to replace the default files.
This is the same way it was in Ctp1, and I don't know why there is a bug with this in Ctp2, unless it has something to do with the multi-player diplomacy problems they have been having.
Maybe Don can figure it out, or at least we can find a way to avoid it, as in the procedure above.

Anyway, back to the mod...
I have spent tonight making new unit build lists and implementing them into the mod. I am pleased with what I was able to improvise, at least in theory. We will have to play-test to see how well it works in the game.
Basically, when at peace AIs still use a set of general, default lists as they do currently for conventional units. I have changed the Special units lists that they use so that each of the five basic personality types has a different combination to pick from. The changes to conventional units come when the AIs go into Seige, Attack or Defense mode. When this occurs, most of the unit lists change to specialty lists I constructed tonight.
You will notice that I managed to basically increase the number of special unit lists by shifting away from things the AIs won't be too interested in building during war-time, like settlers, to specialty units like Marines, whom you only need a few of even when at war.
For standard units, I divided the default lists (offense, defense, ranged, sea and air) up into sub-lists, each customized to the specific situation (siege, attack or defense).
Here are a couple of pastes from the two files which call up and execute the lists. The first series of pastes gives you the lists, and the second series shows you the units in the various lists.

From strategies.txt

STRATEGY_SEIGE {

// Number of special units that should be built
SettlerUnitsCount 4
SeaTransportUnitsCount 3
AirTransportUnitsCount 2
SpecialUnitsCount 3

// Types of special units that should be built
SettlerUnitList UNIT_BUILD_LIST_MARINES
SeaTransportUnitList UNIT_BUILD_LIST_SEA_TRANSPORT
AirTransportUnitList UNIT_BUILD_LIST_AIR_TRANSPORT
SpecialUnitList UNIT_BUILD_LIST_SCOUT
//FreightUnitList UNIT_BUILD_LIST_FREIGHT

// Unit Percents must total to 1 (100%)
OffensiveUnitsPercent 0.30
DefensiveUnitsPercent 0.10
RangedUnitsPercent 0.30
SeaUnitsPercent 0.10
AirUnitsPercent 0.20

// Types of standard units that should be built
OffensiveUnitList UNIT_BUILD_LIST_INFANTRY
DefensiveUnitList UNIT_BUILD_LIST_SAMS
RangedUnitList UNIT_BUILD_LIST_RANGED
SeaUnitList UNIT_BUILD_LIST_SEA
AirUnitList UNIT_BUILD_LIST_BOMBERS

STRATEGY_ATTACK {

// Number of special units that should be built
SettlerUnitsCount 3
SeaTransportUnitsCount 3
AirTransportUnitsCount 2
SpecialUnitsCount 3

// Types of special units that should be built
SettlerUnitList UNIT_BUILD_LIST_PARATROOPERS
SeaTransportUnitList UNIT_BUILD_LIST_SEA_TRANSPORT
AirTransportUnitList UNIT_BUILD_LIST_AIR_TRANSPORT
SpecialUnitList UNIT_BUILD_LIST_SCOUT
//FreightUnitList UNIT_BUILD_LIST_FREIGHT

// Unit Percents must total to 1 (100%)
OffensiveUnitsPercent 0.35
DefensiveUnitsPercent 0.15
RangedUnitsPercent 0.25
SeaUnitsPercent 0.15
AirUnitsPercent 0.10

// Types of standard units that should be built
OffensiveUnitList UNIT_BUILD_LIST_FLANKER
DefensiveUnitList UNIT_BUILD_LIST_SAMS
RangedUnitList UNIT_BUILD_LIST_FIELD
SeaUnitList UNIT_BUILD_LIST_SURFACE
AirUnitList UNIT_BUILD_LIST_ATTACK

STRATEGY_DEFEND {

// Number of special units that should be built
//SettlerUnitsCount 4
//SeaTransportUnitsCount 3
//AirTransportUnitsCount 2
SpecialUnitsCount 2

// Types of special units that should be built
//SettlerUnitList UNIT_BUILD_LIST_PARATROOPERS
//SeaTransportUnitList UNIT_BUILD_LIST_SEA_TRANSPORT
//AirTransportUnitList UNIT_BUILD_LIST_AIR_TRANSPORT
SpecialUnitList UNIT_BUILD_LIST_SCOUT
//FreightUnitList UNIT_BUILD_LIST_FREIGHT

// Unit Percents must total to 1 (100%)
OffensiveUnitsPercent 0.10
DefensiveUnitsPercent 0.35
RangedUnitsPercent 0.25
SeaUnitsPercent 0.15
AirUnitsPercent 0.15

// Types of standard units that should be built
OffensiveUnitList UNIT_BUILD_LIST_OFFENSE
DefensiveUnitList UNIT_BUILD_LIST_DEFENSE
RangedUnitList UNIT_BUILD_LIST_CITY
SeaUnitList UNIT_BUILD_LIST_UNDERSEA
AirUnitList UNIT_BUILD_LIST_FIGHTERS

From unitbuildlist.txt
NOTE: These are the text file names, and may not be the names which you see in the game.

# 13

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_SPECIAL {
Unit UNIT_NOBLE
Unit UNIT_DIPLOMAT
Unit UNIT_SLAVER
Unit UNIT_ABOLITIONIST
Unit UNIT_CLERIC
Unit UNIT_SPY
Unit UNIT_LAWYER
Unit UNIT_SECRET_AGENT
Unit UNIT_CORPORATE_BRANCH
Unit UNIT_TELEVANGELIST
Unit UNIT_EMPATHIC_DIPLOMAT
Unit UNIT_NUKE
Unit UNIT_CYBER_NINJA
Unit UNIT_INFECTOR
Unit UNIT_ECO_TERRORIST
Unit UNIT_ECO_RANGER
}

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_SPECIAL_PEACEFUL {
Unit UNIT_NOBLE
Unit UNIT_DIPLOMAT
Unit UNIT_ABOLITIONIST
Unit UNIT_LAWYER
Unit UNIT_SECRET_AGENT
Unit UNIT_EMPATHIC_DIPLOMAT
Unit UNIT_CYBER_NINJA
}

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_SPECIAL_MILITARIST {
Unit UNIT_SLAVER
Unit UNIT_DIPLOMAT
Unit UNIT_SPY
Unit UNIT_LAWYER
Unit UNIT_SECRET_AGENT
Unit UNIT_CORPORATE_BRANCH
Unit UNIT_CYBER_NINJA
Unit UNIT_INFECTOR
}

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_SPECIAL_ECONOMIC {
Unit UNIT_NOBLE
Unit UNIT_DIPLOMAT
Unit UNIT_SLAVER
Unit UNIT_ABOLITIONIST
Unit UNIT_SPY
Unit UNIT_LAWYER
Unit UNIT_SECRET_AGENT
Unit UNIT_CORPORATE_BRANCH
Unit UNIT_EMPATHIC_DIPLOMAT
Unit UNIT_CYBER_NINJA
}

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_SPECIAL_ECOTOPIAN {
Unit UNIT_NOBLE
Unit UNIT_DIPLOMAT
Unit UNIT_CLERIC
Unit UNIT_SPY
Unit UNIT_LAWYER
Unit UNIT_SECRET_AGENT
Unit UNIT_TELEVANGELIST
Unit UNIT_EMPATHIC_DIPLOMAT
Unit UNIT_CYBER_NINJA
Unit UNIT_ECO_TERRORIST
Unit UNIT_ECO_RANGER
}

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_SPECIAL_DIPLOMATIC {
Unit UNIT_NOBLE
Unit UNIT_DIPLOMAT
Unit UNIT_SPY
Unit UNIT_ABOLITIONIST
Unit UNIT_LAWYER
Unit UNIT_SECRET_AGENT
Unit UNIT_EMPATHIC_DIPLOMAT
Unit UNIT_CYBER_NINJA
}

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_SPECIAL_NUCLEAR {
Unit UNIT_NUKE
}

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_SEA_TRANSPORT {
Unit UNIT_CATAMARAN
Unit UNIT_COG
Unit UNIT_PRIVATEER
Unit UNIT_TROOP_SHIP
Unit UNIT_CRAWLER
}

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_AIR_TRANSPORT {
Unit UNIT_CARRIER
Unit UNIT_CARGO_HELICOPTER
Unit UNIT_AIRCRAFT_CARRIER
Unit UNIT_SPACE_PLANE
}

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_LAND_SETTLER {
Unit UNIT_SETTLER
Unit UNIT_URBAN_PLANNER
}

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_SEA_SETTLER {
Unit UNIT_SETTLER
Unit UNIT_SEA_ENGINEER
}

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_SCOUT {
Unit UNIT_WARRIOR
Unit UNIT_LIGHT_CAVALRY
Unit UNIT_HEAVY_CAVALRY
Unit UNIT_HORSE_ARCHER
Unit UNIT_CAVALRY
Unit UNIT_GERMAN_TANK
Unit UNIT_SPY_PLANE
Unit UNIT_SCOUT_SUB
}

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_MARINES {
Unit UNIT_MARINE
Unit UNIT_STORM_MARINE
Unit UNIT_HOVER_MARINE
}

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_PARATROOPERS {
Unit UNIT_AIRBORNE
Unit UNIT_PARATROOPER
Unit UNIT_SWARM
}

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_DEFENSE {
Unit UNIT_SPEARMAN
Unit UNIT_PHALANX
Unit UNIT_FYRDMAN
Unit UNIT_MUSKETEER
Unit UNIT_RIFLEMAN
Unit UNIT_MACHINE_GUNNER
Unit UNIT_PLASMATICA
}

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_OFFENSE {
Unit UNIT_SWORDSMAN
Unit UNIT_LIGHT_CAVALRY
Unit UNIT_HEAVY_SWORDSMAN
Unit UNIT_HEAVY_CAVALRY
Unit UNIT_PIKEMEN
Unit UNIT_KNIGHT
Unit UNIT_INFANTRYMAN
Unit UNIT_CAVALRY
Unit UNIT_GERMAN_TANK
Unit UNIT_GERMAN_TANK2
Unit UNIT_FASCIST
Unit UNIT_TANK
Unit UNIT_HOVER_INFANTRY
Unit UNIT_HOVERTANK
}

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_INFANTRY {
Unit UNIT_SWORDSMAN
Unit UNIT_HEAVY_SWORDSMAN
Unit UNIT_PIKEMEN
Unit UNIT_INFANTRYMAN
Unit UNIT_GERMAN_TANK
Unit UNIT_FASCIST
Unit UNIT_HOVER_INFANTRY
}

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_FLANKER {
Unit UNIT_LIGHT_CAVALRY
Unit UNIT_HEAVY_CAVALRY
Unit UNIT_KNIGHT
Unit UNIT_CAVALRY
Unit UNIT_GERMAN_TANK2
Unit UNIT_TANK
Unit UNIT_HOVERTANK
}

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_RANGED {
Unit UNIT_SLINGER
Unit UNIT_JAVELINEER
Unit UNIT_ARCHER
Unit UNIT_MOUNTED_ARCHER
Unit UNIT_CATAPULT
Unit UNIT_HORSE_ARCHER
Unit UNIT_CULVERIN
Unit UNIT_CANNON
Unit UNIT_ANTIAIR
Unit UNIT_SELF_PROP_GUN
Unit UNIT_ARTILLERY
Unit UNIT_WAR_WALKER
Unit UNIT_AT_ARTILLERY
Unit UNIT_FUSION_TANK
}

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_CITY {
Unit UNIT_SLINGER
Unit UNIT_ARCHER
Unit UNIT_CATAPULT
Unit UNIT_CULVERIN
Unit UNIT_ANTIAIR
Unit UNIT_ARTILLERY
Unit UNIT_AT_ARTILLERY
}

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_FIELD {
Unit UNIT_JAVELINEER
Unit UNIT_MOUNTED_ARCHER
Unit UNIT_HORSE_ARCHER
Unit UNIT_CANNON
Unit UNIT_SELF_PROP_GUN
Unit UNIT_WAR_WALKER
Unit UNIT_FUSION_TANK
}

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_SAMS {
Unit UNIT_MOBILE_SAM
Unit UNIT_WAR_WALKER
Unit UNIT_FUSION_TANK
}

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_SEA {
Unit UNIT_TRIREME
Unit UNIT_CARRACK
Unit UNIT_SHIP_OF_THE_LINE
Unit UNIT_IRONCLAD
Unit UNIT_SUBMARINE
Unit UNIT_DESTROYER
Unit UNIT_FRIGATE
Unit UNIT_BATTLESHIP
Unit UNIT_NUCLEAR_SUBMARINE
Unit UNIT_MISSILE_CRUISER
Unit UNIT_KRAKEN
Unit UNIT_MOREY_STRIKER
Unit UNIT_PLASMA_DESTROYER
Unit UNIT_DREADNAUGHT
}

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_SURFACE {
Unit UNIT_TRIREME
Unit UNIT_CARRACK
Unit UNIT_SHIP_OF_THE_LINE
Unit UNIT_IRONCLAD
Unit UNIT_DESTROYER
Unit UNIT_BATTLESHIP
Unit UNIT_KRAKEN
Unit UNIT_DREADNAUGHT
}

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_UNDERSEA {
Unit UNIT_TRIREME
Unit UNIT_CARRACK
Unit UNIT_SHIP_OF_THE_LINE
Unit UNIT_IRONCLAD
Unit UNIT_SUBMARINE
Unit UNIT_FRIGATE
Unit UNIT_NUCLEAR_SUBMARINE
Unit UNIT_MISSILE_CRUISER
Unit UNIT_MOREY_STRIKER
Unit UNIT_PLASMA_DESTROYER
}

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_AIR {
Unit UNIT_FIGHTER
Unit UNIT_DIVE_BOMBER
Unit UNIT_BOMBER
Unit UNIT_INTERCEPTOR
Unit UNIT_ATTACK_HELICOPTER
Unit UNIT_JET_BOMBER
Unit UNIT_MOBILE_SAM
Unit UNIT_STEALTH_BOMBER
Unit UNIT_STEALTH_FIGHTER
}

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_FIGHTERS {
Unit UNIT_FIGHTER
Unit UNIT_INTERCEPTOR
Unit UNIT_STEALTH_FIGHTER
}

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_ATTACK {
Unit UNIT_DIVE_BOMBER
Unit UNIT_ATTACK_HELICOPTER
Unit UNIT_STEALTH_FIGHTER
}

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_BOMBERS {
Unit UNIT_BOMBER
Unit UNIT_JET_BOMBER
Unit UNIT_STEALTH_BOMBER
}

UNIT_BUILD_LIST_FREIGHT {
Unit UNIT_CARAVAN
Unit UNIT_Z_FREIGHT_TRANSPORT
}

[preacherman]

Wes, copyed your last updat to text and now getting data base error. missing all kinds of adv. and everything for man-at-arms. sound ,sprite, icon. what did I do wrong?

[Pintello]

Hi All,

I haven't worked with the new text file, but I would like to comment on something somebody said about the bug. They said that they didn't think that the game was loading the database the second time around. I think this may be correct. I noticed when I was experimenting with the bug that when I loaded the first saved game, the load bar came up twice. Once to presumably load the scenario files and the second time to load the saved game. When I tried to load the second saved game, the load bar came up only once. What seems to me to be happening is that when loading the second game, CTP2 doesn't know to load the scenario files first.

Just my 2 cents.

Timothy Pintello

[WesW]

Martock, I don't know how to give the Bars tech based upon the game turn, which would probably be the way to approach what you are talking about.
The units chosen by risk text are based only upon attack value, so they are useless for special units.
What you want may be another of those slic-only things.
Tha main problem, of course, is that the Bars were never designed to be more than an early-game nuisance, and trying to make them more than that may be quite a job.

P-man, you are using the top, "units" version of the mod. This version is not ready for testing, hence the errors.
I worked last night and got rid of all those errors, but the beta version will not be ready for several more days. I am still getting ideas for techs from Harlan and Diodorus, then I will have to re-organize the entire first half of the game at least. By then, Gedrin should have sent me a version of his XLS which I can use to set the advances costs and enabling settings for all the stuff in the game. I am looking at the end of next week before all this will be ready.

What I need now are reviews of the latest Alpha domestic version, to see what the AI and Bar behavior is like, and anything else people think needs to be known.

[Martock]

Wes, i've played about 250 turns now with the new barbarian settings...on impossible level, raging hordes of them, and patched with version 1.1...i'm getting my butt THROUGHLY trounced with the new settings. i've figured out that the barbarians have access to the highest tech unit available to ANY civ in the game. at the moment, i'm having to deal with barbarian tank armies every few turns...needless to say, i've had to create MANY internal sweeping armies to prevent a major build up of units. it's very VERY tough at the moment.

i may have to tone it down but i'm gonna play this game on thru the diamond age. i need to see if it will acquire any stealth units (i have given it tech increases to merit it's units). i did do one other thing. i gave the barbarian AI 1000000 cash and PW and it IS building farms and roads and mines like any OTHER AI AND whilst looking into one of it's cities, it will build happiness buildings to keep it's cities in line. also, it will have it's cities fully defended.

so far, there are 5 barbarian cities on the map. i've lost 4 cities to them through the game, but have managed to reclaim my lost cities. NOT an easy task.

as for stealth units, i'm fairly certain this will be a SLIC thingy. after the new year, i'll pop mr. orge an email and ask about if this can be done and if it can be made so that later in the game the barbarians use stealth units instead of military ones.
[This message has been edited by Martock (edited December 31, 2000).]

[Darkknight]

Well i'm back after 10 days away Happy new year New York was what 15 minutes ago
5:15am in Ireland yawn.
Any idea when the mod will be finished if you don't mind me asking I was working on a mod to change all the buildings/units names to old civ2 names(enough with bazaar bring back the marketplace ) but i've been trying to work out how to use this cool 3D imager Program called blender download it free @ www.blender.nl 1.5mb small for how good it is.bit buggy though anyway I've started compiling a list of all the different files to edit for different things and if anyone has anything please e-mail me.


------------------
" mind over body "

[Martock]

Wes, i read your reply and wondered then, if it solely resides on technology to get stealth units. what about giving barbarians technology based on the age...or perhaps the most advanced civ's techs. essentially allowing the barbarians free tech to build the necessary items from captured cities??

if it could be rigged up so that SLIC would provide the barbarians stealth units later on instead of normal units that would be much more realistic and workable. i'm gonna do some testing again and this time, play a few rounds with the barbarians have ALL tech. see what that does for them.

[Darkknight]

Sorry saw your first post.I thought this was your old topic and i'd read throught that already.

[preacherman]

Wes, I have been playing new text files, bars will attact but only if they have advantage. My problem is AI's they are all over my civ and won't except request to leave. One AI built peramid in about 35 turns and I still only had three citys. I am in AD and have 10 citys but my biggest is only 5 If you are going to slow us down, need to slow them also.

[preacherman]

I want to add to last post AI's have citys over 15 I normaly don't have any trouble building civ.My largest city is on the water and has grass all around it and is still at 7. It seems that the AI's are not only starting out with more adv. but are running sicence much faster then me. I have about 50 units on the board but am still last in armys. I am playing on very hard level still but in first text mod I was up in middle of the pack in scince and gold. now I am dead last in every area. you might want to kick up our grouth or slow down AI's. I like a challenge but if the AI's keep going like they are we won't have a chanch by end of modern time.

[WesW]

The first time I looked at the DiffDB I was surprised at how much advantage the AI was given. Yet all everyone talked about was how they could easily wipe the floor with the AI on Impossible level.

It seems that my changes to AI settings have made a big improvenment, because I have not touched the DiffDB settings at all.
I will go back and reduce the human handicap, and see if that addresses the growth and science problems you are all reporting compared to the AI.

Btw, check out the advances thread. I have posted the techs I plan to add to the game, and will shortly upload the advances chart for you to look at.

[Pintello]

Hi Wes,

I have finally been able to do some testing with the new text files. Here are some things I have noticed.

1) Barbarians are more willing to attack. Especially if they are evenly or better matched to what they are attacking.
2) The AIs are using slavers again.
3) The Brazilians started a war with me. They then sent a stack of 4 or 5 directly to my capital city. If I had not intercepted it on the way with a much larger stack, they probably would have been able to take it too. The stack I intercepted it with was on its way to the Brazilian city. Too bad for them.
4) Once my stack was back up to strength, I sent it on to the Brazilian city. The Brazilian city was very well defeneded. It even appeared to evenly distribute its troops between Hoplites and Archers. My first stack of 12 was wiped out when I attacked it. By the time I got another stack of 12 together to attack again, it had built its city defenses back up to 5 or six units, again well distributed. Once I moved on the Brazilian's two remaining cities, both cities again had 4-6 units in them, again well distributed. I lost units at each city I took. Overall, the Brazilians did pretty well for a civ that only had 3 cities while I had 6 or 7. The only thing they did wrong was start a war with me, which they may not have had much choice in because there were pretty limited in their territory and I was the main limiter.
5) Science is still going way to slow for me. Putting Monarcy earlier may alleviate this problem somewhat.
6) My cities grow much slower that the AIs.
7) Preacherman's complaints are valid, but I am not sure they are something we want to change too much. After all, this mod is designed to make the AI much for difficult to beat. If it is too difficult at one level then the player should move down a level or too. Otherwise the really good players will still not get the challenge they crave.
8) The AIs still don't appear to be using navies very much. I am in 12 or 14 hundred AD and I have only seen one AI Corcale. This is not good in my opinion.

That is all for now.

Timothy Pintello

[colorme]

Any possibility of handling the opening of embassies thru diplomatic negotiations (I don't care if this seems like a paradox)? I hate moving the stupid diplomat around ...