Barbarian city from goody hut

[Guest]

Being that most of the cities i found in goody huts were poorly located so I'd immediately disband them, but the AI wasnt smart enough to do that, I added the city percentage to the settler percent, and zeroed out the city percentage. What I'd really like to do is be able to find fully functional barbarian cities complete with defensive units to force an immediate battle. After all, not all cities would be friendly.

any clues if this is possible?

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History is written by the victor.

[preacherman]

i DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN GET A BARBARIN CITY FROM A HUT BUT i DO KNOW THAT THEY WILL TAKE OVER A CIV AND BUILD WONDERS BUT WON'T SHOW UP ON DIPLOMACY SCREEN. I THINK IT IS BAD ENOUGH TO GET TOW OR THREE BARBARINS FROM ONE HUT AS IS.

[Purple]

AW, seems to me that by definition barbarians are not civilized enough to build cities. They just capture existing ones. And they don't manage them very well--just keep turning out military units.

What you're asking for is provided by enemy civs, though. They just don't come out of goody huts.

[Alpha Wolf]

I guess the point I was making was missed. Its not logical for every city found in a goody hut to immediately join the civ that found it. Even barbarians have to live somewhere. i think it would be cool to occassionally run across cities that arent part of a civ and have no desire to be. Unless taken by force. The civs expand, these cities would be locked in time until found, not growing or exploring. And being poorly managed does not mean none existant. Otherwise Chicago wouldnt exist.
BTW, if I remember my history correctly, barbarians were any one not Roman. Including those civs that eventually conquered Rome. much like we use "3rd world" today.
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History is written by the victor.
[This message has been edited by Alpha Wolf (edited December 27, 2000).]

[WesW]

AW, one question for you: If a unit of yours enters a hut, and the hut becomes a city, how can that city belong to any other civ but yours, since you have a unit in it, effectively capturing the city?

[JamesJKirk]

And also, you often run into 3-6 barbarian "nomad" units in huts, which goes with them not being civilized enough to make cities

[Alpha Wolf]

quote: Originally posted by WesW on 12-27-2000 09:25 PM AW, one question for you: If a unit of yours enters a hut, and the hut becomes a city, how can that city belong to any other civ but yours, since you have a unit in it, effectively capturing the city?

As my original post stated, walking into the these cities would force an immediate battle with whatever garrison was randomly created at that moment, much like attacking any other city. Except in this case, you didnt know it was a city. Think of these as cities that look like huts. The computer generates barbarian units, you'd fight that. If you win, the city becomes yours. if you lose, theres a new barbarian city. These cities might have a few buildings in them but very few, and all simple ones.

I see 2 things that need to happen for this concept to work. instead of barbarians surrounding you, there would be immediate battle. Second, for a city AND barbarians (via first condition) to be generated from the same hut.

Think of the real world concept then apply it to the game. A unit walks into an independent village. They may not be happy to see you and attack (the old explorer in a giant pot over a fire jokes). Romans considered any civilization other than their own barbaric. That didnt mean they didnt have cities and armies, it just meant they werent as sophisticated as the Romans.

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History is written by the victor.

[Diodorus Sicilus]

Actually, the word 'barbarian' comes from the Greeks, and meant, simply, anyone who did not speak Greek. The Romans later applied it to anyone not under the benevolent protection racket of themselves. The Civ games all seem to use it to mean any group not building cities, which includes not only nomads like the Huns, Mongols, Scythians, Pechenegs, etc, but also populations too thinly spread for cities, like early Germans and Celts. Note that most of these groups later formed "civilizations" and are included as Civs in the various Civ games.
What I'd like to see is Barbarians that, once they conquer or otherwise acquire a city, are able to "settle down" and start a new civilization. This would mimic the historic pattern much more closely and provide a much more interesting flow to the game - you couldn't be certain from the start exactly who you'd have to deal with by 100 BC, 1000 AD, or 2000 AD!
The major problems I see to this are:
1. What kind of tech/advances does the new civ start with - how do we keep it from being fatally handicapped from the start?
2. Do all the barbarian cities convert at the same time, or just individual cities as they reach some kind of "threshold" or trigger? In the second case, what kind of units does the civ start with and how does it keep from being immediately overrun by its new barbarian neighbors! Is there some kind of geographic discriminator so that only barbarian cities within X tiles of each other evolve into a single new civilization, while barbarian cities further away stay barbarian or evolve into yet another civilization at a different time?
3. Can you "push" barbarians into civilization with bribes of tech or gold? Can you use Diplomacy to buy them off until they get a taste for civilizaed goodies? This brings up another can of worms, Diplomacy with barbarians, which would be another nice addition to the game...

[Alpha Wolf]

Just update the barbarian section of the strategies.txt. i've seen barbarian named cities, after I made a few changes. Yes, they are handicapped, but i wanted them more as a nuisance than a new civ.

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History is written by the victor.