Patch v1.1 and Scenarios

[skorpion59]

Well, Activision cheated on fixing this one. You no longer can play with more than 8 Civs. If you create a scenario with 14 Civs, it will automatically default back to 8 when you start the scenario. You still get your choice of the 14 Civs but only 8 will be available for the game. I guess they just wanted to keep the game from crashing. But, alas, it still crashes. However, it is only 1 out of 4 games that crash instead of every game. I haven't figured out the magic reason why it will still crash but I am looking into it.

Additionaly, you still have to be the first person(player) for it to work when you try to add cities. Maybe by the time the V1.2 Patch comes out, scenarios might actually work. Then again, maybe by the time V1.2 comes out, everybody will be back to AOE.

And, NO, dropping or not having scenario support is not even an option so quit thinking about it. That will spell the demise of CtP for sure.

Okay, I had my rant, back to finding out exactly how all this works now.

[marc420]

I hope this is just the short term fix. Maybe they just changed this to prevent crashes until they can get the code for more than 8 civs working in another patch.

There is going to be another patch, isn't there?

If anyone at Activision doubts the value of Scenarios, they should look at Civ2 and the way scenarios for that game have kept it going a long time after its release.

marc

[Matte979]

I play my worldmap scenario with 14 civs. Used the place settlers way. No problem after i applied the patch i created it after the patch.

/Mathias

[skorpion59]

I see I need to get my scenario creation instructions done (should be available tonight).

You are right but you are not playing a scenario. The only way you can set settlers is with the FullGame option and that is not a scenario. It is a saved game (which is why it is called FullGame). This is equivalent to editing a game you are playing, saving it normally, exiting CtP2 and then loading the game you just saved. Voila, map is covered back up and it is just like you never edited the game. That is why you must play as player 1 or it doesn't work.

Instructions are coming......

[skorpion59]

It appears we are still getting conflicting opinions on the ability to play with more than 8 Civs. It is all a matter of symatics. You can't lump everything you do into one category and call it a scenario.

The instructions are not done yet. Sorry but it takes a long time to test every conceivable variable under all the different options. I have posted the beginning of them below to try to clear up the confusion.

I would love to be proven wrong on this issue. So, by all means, if you know how to create a playable Real Scenario with more than 8 Civs, please post the step-by-step instructions for doing this. I would be most grateful.

Also, when making comments about developing scenarios, please reference what type of scenario you are referring to. It will make everything less confusing.

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Scenario Creation Information

CtP2 has 4 options to create scenarios. The 1st option, FullGame, is not actually a scenario. It is a saved game, it acts like a saved game when played and it is totally separate from a scenario. However, for the sake of the argument, we will call it a scenario. Thus we can distinguish the 2 types of scenarios by referring to them as Saved Game (or FullGame) Scenarios vs Regular (or Real) Scenarios.

In Saved Game Scenarios, you can and must place Cities or Settlers for it to work. You can't set start locations (it is a saved game and will not generate Civs). In Regular Scenarios, you can and must set Start Locations by Player or by Nation for it to work. You can't set cities or settlers (it is a scenario which generates Civs on its own). The previous statements are important as that is what distinguishes scenarios from other options. This is not as important to the end-user but it is important for scenario development.

Additionally, all this information assumes you are creating a Map Scenario and not a Random Scenario since a Random scenario is actually a Mod. A Map Scenario is always played on the same imported/customized map while a Random scenario (Mod) uses a different map every time you start a new game. However, Random scenarios (Mods) can also take advantage of customized maps.

Okay, you got all that. Saved Game scenarios, Regular scenarios, Map scenarios and Random (Mod) scenarios. Aside from the Saved Game scenario, the rest can be mixed and matched at will and are limited to 8 Civs. You can set up more Civs than that but the scenario will default back to 8 when it is started. This is how the patch keeps CtP2 from crashing so often when making scenarios.

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[Savant]

That's an important post Skorp. If we don;t know what we are talking about then people will mistakenly misrepresent what a game file/mod/scenario.. whathaveyou is all about.

I just printed it so I can include it in my li'l CTP2 "How to" folder.

------------------
'Blood will run'

[skorpion59]

More relevant information which will be needed

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Scenario Directory Setup and Structure
or better known as "Everything you didn't want to know about the Scenario directory setup and structure".

Individual scenarios are housed in scenario packs. The minimum requirement and most common setup is one pack with one scenario in it. This is how the scenarios which came with CtP2 are set up. However, you can actually have up to 9999 scenarios per pack and I have personally created and used packs with 99 map scenarios in them without any problems.

Directory Structure:
The minimum directory structure (1 pack / 1 scenario) is as follows:
(In general, the scenario Pack Name and scenario Pack Directory will be the same, although it doesn't have to be)
[CtP2]\scenarios\PackName
[CtP2]\scenarios\PackName\PackList.txt
[CtP2]\scenarios\PackName\PackIcon.tga (optional icon for your pack)
[CtP2]\scenarios\PackName\Scen0000
[CtP2]\scenarios\PackName\Scen0000\Scenario.txt
[CtP2]\scenarios\PackName\Scen0000\ScenIcon.tga (optional icon for this scenario)
[CtP2]\scenarios\PackName\Scen0000\Default
[CtP2]\scenarios\PackName\Scen0000\Default\GameData
[CtP2]\scenarios\PackName\Scen0000\Default\GameData\Scen ario.slc

Each new scenario added to the pack would require a new scenario directory which is incremented by 1, such as:
[CtP2]\scenarios\PackName\Scen0001
[CtP2]\scenarios\PackName\Scen0001\Scenario.txt
[CtP2]\scenarios\PackName\Scen0001\ScenIcon.tga (optional icon for this scenario)
[CtP2]\scenarios\PackName\Scen0001\Default\
[CtP2]\scenarios\PackName\Scen0001\Default\GameData
[CtP2]\scenarios\PackName\Scen0001\Default\GameData\Scen ario.slc

To add a 3rd scenario, add the following:
[CtP2]\scenarios\PackName\Scen0002
[CtP2]\scenarios\PackName\Scen0002\Scenario.txt
[CtP2]\scenarios\PackName\Scen0002\ScenIcon.tga (optional icon for this scenario)
[CtP2]\scenarios\PackName\Scen0002\Default\
[CtP2]\scenarios\PackName\Scen0002\Default\GameData
[CtP2]\scenarios\PackName\Scen0002\Default\GameData\Scen ario.slc

File Layouts:
PackList.txt - this text file contains 3 lines
Line 1 is the Name of the Scenario Pack
Line 2 is the Description of the Scenario Pack
Line 3 is the Number of scenarios in this Pack

Scenario.txt - this text file contains 2 lines
Line 1 is the Name of the Scenario
Line 2 is the Desription of the scenario

Scenario.slc - this text file varies in length
It can even be empty but it must be here

PackIcon.tga - optional, replaces the default pyramids icon in your scenario Pack
This is a graphic icon which you can use to represent your scenario Pack in the scenario pack list.
It is a 160 x 120, 16-bit, uncompressed TGA file

ScenIcon.tga - optional, replaces the default pyramids icon in your individual Scenario
This is a graphic icon which you can use to represent your Scenario in the scenario Pack's Scenario list
It is a 160 x 120, 16-bit, uncompressed TGA file


** Example **
Lets say I have a scenario Pack with 2 scenarios in it. The scenario directory is Demo, the pack name is DemoPack, the 1st scenario name is DemoScenario1, the 2nd scenario name is DemoScenario2, I have a custom TGA for my Pack and I use the default pyramid TGA's for both scenarios. It would be laid out as follows:

[CtP2]\scenarios\Demo
[CtP2]\scenarios\Demo\PackList.txt
[CtP2]\scenarios\Demo\PackIcon.tga
[CtP2]\scenarios\Demo\Scen0000
[CtP2]\scenarios\Demo\Scen0000\Scenario.txt
[CtP2]\scenarios\Demo\Scen0000\Default
[CtP2]\scenarios\Demo\Scen0000\Default\GameData
[CtP2]\scenarios\Demo\Scen0000\Default\GameData\Scenario .slc
[CtP2]\scenarios\Demo\Scen0001
[CtP2]\scenarios\Demo\Scen0001\Scenario.txt
[CtP2]\scenarios\Demo\Scen0001\Default\
[CtP2]\scenarios\Demo\Scen0001\Default\GameData
[CtP2]\scenarios\Demo\Scen0001\Default\GameData\Scenario .slc

[CtP2]\scenarios\Demo\PackList.txt:
DemoPack
DemoPack Description
2

[CtP2]\scenarios\Demo\Scen0000\Scenario.txt:
DemoScenario1
DemoScenario1 Description

[CtP2]\scenarios\Demo\Scen0000\Default\GameData\Scenario .slc:
// Scenario script for DemoScenario1

[CtP2]\scenarios\Demo\Scen0001\Scenario.txt:
DemoScenario2
DemoScenario2 Description

[CtP2]\scenarios\Demo\Scen0001\Default\GameData\Scenario .slc:
// Scenario script for DemoScenario2

Note 1: // signifies a comment in an SLIC file
Note 2: The 'Save Scenario' portion of the 'Scenario Creation' instructions references the above items.
Note 3: You will notice I left out the savegame.c2g file. This is the actual saved game or scenario and the 'Save Scenario' option will create it and put it in the appropriate place (which happens to be the individual scenario directory, scen000, scen001, etc).

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[This message has been edited by skorpion59 (edited December 18, 2000).]

[Harlan]

Scorpion,
Something I'd really like to have you or someone answer: what's the difference between the four modes in the Empire tab of the cheat menu? I once asked someone in Activision about this, figuring it might be important for my scenario, and got a don't worry about it type response, except that I was told I had to save as I believe the last of the four so people are only presented with one civ to chose from when they start up the scenario.

[skorpion59]

Harlan,

That is exactly the object of this thread and what I am working on. The 4 modes you mention ARE the 4 types of scenarios I mentioned in my post above. However, I am documenting everything related to it since all this information needs to be understood before you start creating scenarios.

My documentation is in-depth and step-by-step so even a newbie can create scenarios. (See the above examples). Breaking it up makes it easier in the long run.

For example, I can make a stand alone document that only explains how to 'Save a Scenario' and reference the document in my instructions for each different type of scenario (modes, as you say) or I can put the exact same info in my document, over and over, for each type of scenario (mode). I have picked the first option. It also makes it easier if someone just wants to know how to 'save a scenario' but isn't interested in the rest of the info.

I had not planned on going this in-depth YET but it needs to be done. It is pretty obvious from the posts that there is some confusion regarding these issues and I think this will help clear it up some. Of course, this is putting the maps, bmp2ctp2 info, map utiliy pgm, new messaging and new SLIC info behind schedule but that can't be helped (unless somebody knows how to get more than 24 hours in a day ).

And speaking of saving scenarios, that is my next one and will be posted shortly. That should then bring me to the point of working with the different types of scenarios.

[Pintello]

Hi Scorpio,

Nothing easier than getting more than 24 hours out of a day. Keep flying west on an airplane. :-)

You can leave the east coast at 9am and get to the west coast at 11am and spend 6 hours doing it. :-)

Timothy Pintello
[This message has been edited by Pintello (edited December 18, 2000).]

[skorpion59]

LOL, thats great Timothy but sooner or later I will have to go back East, won't I? What happens then?

Okay, more incredibly useless information.....

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Saving Scenarios

The screens associated with saving scenarios as well as the proces itself is not very intuitive (to say the least, it is pretty sad when you can't even include a close icon). Oh well, on to the process.

These instructions pertain to saving scenarios in which you have NOT previously created the scenario directory structure, either manually or by a previous save scenario.

Click on the 'Save Scenario' icon in the Editor (Cheat Menu). A 'Scenario Selection' screen will pop up showing the available scenario packs. Click on the 'New...' icon on the lower right. The 'Scenario Pack' screen pops up. While the screen doesn't have a name, you know it is the Pack screen because it has 3 fields. The fields are Directory, Name and Description. Directory is the top-level directory name that your scenario pack will be located in (the directory under [CtP2]\scenarios). In the Alexander Scenario Pack this is 'AlexanderTheGreat', in my Example Scenario Pack, it is 'Demo'. Name is the name of the Scenario Pack you are creating. In the Alexander Scenario Pack, this is 'Alexander the Great'. In my Example Scenario Pack, it is 'DemoPack'. This corresponds to Line 1 in PackList.txt. Description is the description of this Scenario Pack, not the Scenario itself. In the Alexander Scenario Pack, it is 'This is your chance to equal.....'. In my Example Scenario Pack, it is 'DemoPack Description'. This corresponds to Line 2 in PackList.txt. When all 3 fields have been filled out, hit the 'OK' icon.

You are now back at the 'Scenario Selection' screen. Hit the up or down arrows on the right side until you see the Scenario Pack you just created. Now click twice on your Scenario Pack (clicking once will only highlight it). You are now taken to a new 'Scenario Selection' screen which has nothing in it. This is where you create all the actual Scenarios that you want to put in your Scenario Pack. Click the 'New...' icon again. A new box pop ups. Although this screen also has no title, it is the 'Individual Scenario' screen. You know this because it has 2 fields in it instead of 3. The fields are Name and Description. Name is the name of the individual scenario you are creating. In the Alexander Scenario, it is 'Alexander the Great'. In my Example Scenario, it is 'DemoScenario1'. This corresponds to Line 1 in Scenario.txt. Description is the description of this Individual Scenario. In the Alexander Scenario, it is '12/6/00 - This scenario is intended for....'. In my Example Scenario, it is 'DemoScenario1 Description'. This corrsponds to Line 2 in Scenario.txt. When both fields have been filled out, hit the 'OK' icon.

You will now see the Scenario you just created in the 'Scenario Selection' screen. Click on your Scenario once and it will become highlighted in orange. This makes it the active selection. Now click on the 'Save' icon on the bottom right. A box will pop up showing the save process. When it goes away, your scenario is done. For some odd reason, Activision did not provide a way to close the 'Scenario Selection' screen. So, hit 'Back' once and you will be back to the screen showing the Scenario Packs. Hit 'Back' again and the 'Scenario Selection' screen goes away. Now all you have to do is close everything down and exit CtP2 (always exit CtP2 after creating a scenario).

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[Locutus]

quote: Originally posted by skorpion59 on 12-19-2000 01:10 AM LOL, thats great Timothy but sooner or later I will have to go back East, won't I? What happens then?

Circle the globe Don't fly too fast though, you might arrive back home earlier than you left and screw up the timeline
[This message has been edited by Locutus (edited December 19, 2000).]

[skorpion59]

Timothy,

This is not exactly step-by-step but it will get you started. I will add step-by-step instructions for creating Random (non map based) Scenarios to my list of Instructions To Do.

If you only want to modify files, you don't use the Editor (Cheat Menu). Follow my instructions above for manually creating the Scenario Pack structure. Don't worry about no savegame.c2g because random scenarios don't use them.

If you just can't figure it out, start a game then go into the editor and do a 'Save Scenario' following the above instructions. Don't change anything in the editor or click any other buttons, just do a 'Save Scenario' right off the bat. Exit CtP2 and go delete the 'Savegame.c2g' file from the Scenario Pack Directory you just created. This will set the structure up for you.

Once the structure is in place, copy the files you want to modify from their default location to the corresponding location in your Scenario Pack. You might have to add some more directories to your Scenario Pack structure depending on which files you plan to modify. In other works, recreate the CtP2 directory structure under your Scenario Pack, but only include the files (and directories) you want to modify.

Important Part:
Now to load Random Scenarios you do the following:
Start a new game and get to the Empire Screen. At the bottom left will be an icon which says 'Select Scenario'. Click on this icon. The 'Scenario Selection' screen pops up showing all the available Scenario Packs. Click on your Pack twice. You will now see all the scenarios in that Pack (just 1 in this case). Either click twice on your scenario or click once on your scenario and then hit 'OK'. You will see a bar go by which shows the scenario loading. Once the loading bar goes away, hit 'back' twice and all the scenario related screens should be gone. Back on the Empire screen, at the bottom center, you shouild see a message indicating the scenario is loaded. Now, set your empire options (civs, rules, map sizes, etc) as you normally would and then hit the 'Launch' button. A new Random game will start which is using the modified files you have placed in your Scenario Structure.

Before making a lot of changes, I would suggest a small test to make sure it is set up correctly. I generally add a bunch of movement points and increase the vision for warriors and settlers and then start a Random Scenario game using the scenario. You will see right away whether it is correct or not. If the new attributes are working it is okay. If not, you have done something wrong and need to try again.

As noted earlier, this is called a Random Scenario because it uses random maps. Clear as Mud isn't it.

Edit:
The structure needed to support the 4 files you mentioned is:
[CtP2]\scenarios\TimPack
[CtP2]\scenarios\TimPack\PackList.txt
[CtP2]\scenarios\TimPack\Scen0000
[CtP2]\scenarios\TimPack\Scen0000\Scenario.txt
[CtP2]\scenarios\TimPack\Scen0000\Default
[CtP2]\scenarios\TimPack\Scen0000\Default\GameData
[CtP2]\scenarios\TimPack\Scen0000\Default\GameData\Scena rio.slc
[CtP2]\scenarios\TimPack\Scen0000\Default\GameData\Const .txt
[CtP2]\scenarios\TimPack\Scen0000\Default\GameData\Map.t xt
[CtP2]\scenarios\TimPack\Scen0000\Default\GameData\Terra in.txt
[CtP2]\scenarios\TimPack\Scen0000\Default\GameData\Units .txt

The 3 basic files would be:
[CtP2]\scenarios\TimPack\PackList.txt:
(your scenario pack name here)
(your scenario pack description here)
1

[CtP2]\scenarios\TimPack\Scen0000\Scenario.txt:
(your scenario name here)
(your scenario description here)

[CtP2]\scenarios\TimPack\Scen0000\Default\GameData\Scena rio.slc:
// Scenario script for (your scenario name here)

You can change 'TimPack' to whatever you want to call your directory. My suggestion is to use the name of your Scenario Pack. You can even make the Scenario Directory name, the Scenario Pack name and Individual Scenario name all the same.
You would now make all the file changes to the files in your scenario structure instead of the default structure.

[This message has been edited by skorpion59 (edited December 19, 2000).]

[Pintello]

Hi Skorp,

Thanks to the directions. I will try them and see how I well I do it. I will also look forward to seeing your more detailed instructions.

Regards,
Timothy Pintello

[hexagonian]

Skorpion

Thanks for the clear instructions on the basics - this is very helpful. Most of this I've been able to figure out (the hard way, unfortunately) but this will help those who are starting from scratch.

Keep it up.