Unit Updater for Super Apolyton Pack 2

[Maquiladora]

Heres probabaly what i would go with, not exactly flowing but...

[start] Hoplite >>> Pikemen >>> Infantryman [end]

[start] Machine Gunner >>> Marine [end]

[start] Paratrooper >>> Hover Infantry [end]

[start] Archer >>> Mounted Archer [end]

[start] Samurai >>> Cavalry >>> Tank >>> Fusion Tank [end]

[start] Knight >>> Cavalry >>> . . . (as above) [end]

[start] Fire Trireme >>> Ship of the Line >>> Destroyer >>> Battleship >>> Plasma Destroyer [end]

[start] Ironclad >>> Submarine >>> Nuclear Sub. >>> Morey Striker [end]

[start] Kraken >>> Dreadnaught [end]

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by hexagonian
I have not played the default game for over 2 years now, so I cannot recall just how much gold is generated, but I do recall it was a lot.

Quite high for the human player, I don't know if the AI can generate a similar amount of money but gold is flowing near the end of the game...

I do feel that Rush Buying should be hard - if used, it should save a few turns but not a lot, and it should be used sparingly. I pushed it higher in Cradle across the board because that was the easiest way to make it tougher.

It does depend on what you are comfortabe with. Upgrading costs should put a dent in your gold though, so you may want to leave it alone.

You may want to test it with just the upgrade costs alone, but ask the question while playing... 'Is it still too easy to both upgrade units and consistently rush buy'?

When I consider the amount of money I have at my disposal in my current game I guess leaving the game unchanged can unbalance a few things.

In setting up my files, I tried to make it so I could not do both - so now I save my gold for upgrading and rush buy very rarely - and its based solely on emergency when I do.

Now I build a lot of caravans/gold enhancements because I need to.

I think I will test two settings :

Rush Buy x6
Rush Buy x8

One of the goal I am targetting for the updater is to get rid off the burden of "manually" upgrade the units scattered throughout my empire having to move them physically where they must replace another unit that will be disbanded.

The Rush Buy setting I will choose is the setting that will even the earn benefit but will not hinder the player to the point he can't upgrade its units. But you are right, I won't appreciate a game becoming too easy because of the possibility to update units.

By the way, I am sorry to bother you with this but I have a few questions left:

1 - I have had a better look to the "code" part of the slic file and I have noted the UnitDB of the Coracle is named UNIT_CORACLE in the CRA_Updater where the APOL_gl_str.txt shows a UNIT_CATAMARAN which must be called "Coracle".

I suppose I must base my work on the strings as they are named in the said APOL_gl_str.txt

2 - In the texts appearing in the message boxes, Peter Trigg is using the word "kill" while speaking about units on the field or in the Production Queue, I suppose it must be understood as "Disband" or "Remove"...

Thanks again for your help.

[Martin the Dane]

I don't like the Samurai becomming Cavalery, it just don't seem right. Maybe let them upgrade to Machine Gunner, they are foot soldiers.

And I would never upgrade all my Paratroopers to Hover Infantry, They have distinct roles on the batlefield.

Finaly I don't se how Ironclad upgrades to submarines, Ironclads were far from stealthy, as they were an upgrade on the Ship of the Line (in real history) thogh not all navies ever used them. Correct me if I'm wrong but IIRC they never realy became an important part of naval combat.

[start] Hoplite >>> Pikemen >>> Infantryman [end]
[start] Archer >>> Infantryman[end]

[start] Samurai >>> Machine Gunner >>> Marine [end]

[start] Paratrooper [end]

[start] Hover Infantry [end]

[start] Mounted Archer >>> Cavalry >>> Tank >>> Fusion Tank [end]

[start] Knight >>> Cavalry >>> . . . (as above) [end]

[start] Fire Trireme >>> Ship of the Line >>>  Ironclad [end]

[start] Destroyer >>> Battleship >>> Plasma Destroyer [end]

[start] Submarine >>> Nuclear Sub. >>> Morey Striker [end]

[start] Coracle >>> Longship >>> Carrack( >>> Troop Ship) [end]

[start] Kraken >>> Dreadnaught [end]

A final note I think upgrade could/should be a build order. Or make disbanding units within cities contribute to production of units.

[Tamerlin]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Martin the Dane

I have some troubles keeping up with the pace of the thread today as I have my seven years old kid for the week end and until 8 p.m tonight, I will caught up this night.

I don't like the Samurai becomming Cavalery, it just don't seem right.

I would let Samurai as a Dead End, it is a very specific and limited use unit.

Maybe let them upgrade to Machine Gunner, they are foot soldiers.

It would be my choice.

And I would never upgrade all my Paratroopers to Hover Infantry, They have distinct roles on the batlefield.

I agree with you Martin, I see Hover Infantry as the ultimate development of foot units.

Finaly I don't see how Ironclad upgrades to submarines, Ironclads were far from stealthy, as they were an upgrade on the Ship of the Line (in real history) though not all navies ever used them. Correct me if I'm wrong but IIRC they never realy became an important part of naval combat.

They have had a very short lifespan and proved clumsy on the battlefield and were quickly replaced by the battleship they were the ancestors of though Hexagonian allows for the replacement of the Ironclad by the Submarine. As far as I am concerned I would let the Update Path "as is".

[CODE]
[start] Hoplite >>> Pikemen >>> Infantryman [end]
[start] Archer >>> Infantryman[end]

[start] Samurai >>> Machine Gunner >>> Marine [end]

My main concern is I would like the updater to ease the flow of the game, this is why I would like the Infantryman to be replaced by the Machine Gunner and then the Machine Gunner by the Marine as they are available when you have many cities and many units to update. You could reply, and you would be right, that they don't have exactly the same role as the Machine Gunner is a defensive unit and the Marine an offensive one. I would let the Samurai a dead end unit as it is a special offensive unit where the Machine Gunner is a defensive modern unit. The abilities of the Marine allow it to fulfill both roles.

[start] Mounted Archer >>> Cavalry >>> Tank >>> Fusion Tank [end]

[start] Knight >>> Cavalry >>> . . . (as above) [end]

My initial post has been edited and corrected to include this new path.

Btw, do you prefer me to send a new post when I have made some corrections in order to spot mthe said corrections more easiliy?

[start] Fire Trireme >>> Ship of the Line >>> Ironclad [end]

Though it sounds odd to me, I can modify the Upgrade Path so the Ship of the Line can upgrade to the Ironclad if a majority of you is OK.

[start] Destroyer >>> Battleship >>> Plasma Destroyer [end]

I still think the Ironclad should upgrade to the Battleship as it is clearly the ancestor of the Battleship.

[start] Coracle >>> Longship >>> Carrack( >>> Troop Ship) [end]

Already included in the update path...

[start] Kraken >>> Dreadnaught [end]

I have wondered for a while in my first worksheet if the Kraken should be upgraded to the Dreadnought, their different abilities (attack, defense...) seemed to point at the contrary, but if a majority agree I will correct my initial post.

A final note I think upgrade could/should be a build order.

I am not a slic programmer and I really don't know how it can be done.

Remember my main goal is to ease the flow of the game and that I don't want to move tens of units on the map to reach the replacement area.

Or make disbanding units within cities contribute to production of units.

You are right but this is a more general modification of the game which is beyond the scope of the Updater.

See you after 8 p.m.

[hexagonian]

Originally posted by Tamerlin
1 - I have had a better look to the "code" part of the slic file and I have noted the UnitDB of the Coracle is named UNIT_CORACLE in the CRA_Updater where the APOL_gl_str.txt shows a UNIT_CATAMARAN which must be called "Coracle".

I suppose I must base my work on the strings as they are named in the said APOL_gl_str.txt

Correct - make sure you are using the name as it appears in the Apolyton files, as I have added new units in Cradle.

Originally posted by Tamerlin
2 - In the texts appearing in the message boxes, Peter Trigg is using the word "kill" while speaking about units on the field or in the Production Queue, I suppose it must be understood as "Disband" or "Remove"...

The only thing you need to change in the updater file is the unit entries, the cost, the enable advances and the bracketed numbers that appear in each unit entry. All the other stuff is the coding that activates the updater - changing that info will cause the code to crash the game.

But its a good think you brought this up - there is another file that you need to be aware of. It's in the english/gamedata folder - for Cradle, it's called...
CRA_update_str.txt
and its the actual message file. You can take a look at it to see if the message reads the way you want it to read. Change the name of the file to...
APOL_update_str.txt

Then open the file...
APOL_Strings.txt
and add the entry at the bottom of the file...
import "APOL_update_str.txt"

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by hexagonian
But its a good think you brought this up - there is another file that you need to be aware of. It's in the english/gamedata folder - for Cradle, it's called...
CRA_update_str.txt
and its the actual message file. You can take a look at it to see if the message reads the way you want it to read.
Change the name of the file to...
APOL_update_str.txt

Then open the file...
APOL_Strings.txt
and add the entry at the bottom of the file...
import "APOL_update_str.txt"

Actual there is no need to do this, the according unit updater strings are already part of the APOL_main_str.txt and can be used without any problems, there is also a German version of these strings.

-Martin

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by hexagonian
Correct - make sure you are using the name as it appears in the Apolyton files, as I have added new units in Cradle.

This is what I thought but it is better to be sure of this as I don't want to send a buggy Updater.

The only thing you need to change in the updater file is the unit entries, the cost, the enable advances and the bracketed numbers that appear in each unit entry. All the other stuff is the coding that activates the updater - changing that info will cause the code to crash the game.

Ooops ! I thought some of the texts in the code part of the .slc file were actually the messages displayed in the message boxes.

But its a good think you brought this up - there is another file that you need to be aware of. It's in the english/gamedata folder - for Cradle, it's called...
CRA_update_str.txt
and its the actual message file. You can take a look at it to see if the message reads the way you want it to read. Change the name of the file to...
APOL_update_str.txt

This will greatly help me to translate the messages to french and release english and french versions of the Updater.

Then open the file...
APOL_Strings.txt
and add the entry at the bottom of the file...
import "APOL_update_str.txt"

I will also write a little read me to help the other apprentices like me.

Thanks for your invaluable help Hexagonian.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Martin Gühmann
Actual there is no need to do this, the according unit updater strings are already part of the APOL_main_str.txt and can be used without any problems, there is also a German version of these strings.

-Martin

I suppose I still have to enable the Updater and add the line
#include "APOL_Update.slc" at the end of the APOL_script.slc file.

[Maquiladora]

Originally posted by Martin the Dane
I don't like the Samurai becomming Cavalery, it just don't seem right. Maybe let them upgrade to Machine Gunner, they are foot soldiers.

I just copied this from civ3 I didnt really like to see so many units at a dead end. Theres alot of distinct units you can say would never upgrade to another, because theyre from different parts of the world.

And I would never upgrade all my Paratroopers to Hover Infantry, They have distinct roles on the batlefield.

I would never build paratroopers full stop, but just a gameplay issue to make humans build paratroopers. In fact all the lines are really with gameplay in mind...

Finaly I don't se how Ironclad upgrades to submarines, Ironclads were far from stealthy, as they were an upgrade on the Ship of the Line (in real history) thogh not all navies ever used them. Correct me if I'm wrong but IIRC they never realy became an important part of naval combat.

The shape and form of an ironclad is very reminiscent of early submarines, i dont think submarines wouldve looked exactly as they do without the ironclad "phase".

I also did this because i never build ironclads. The science speed is often so fast at that stage that you totally bypass ironclads and can wait easily for submarines, and just keep ship of the line until then. I see ironclads as the start of a different kind of naval unit.

A final note I think upgrade could/should be a build order. Or make disbanding units within cities contribute to production of units.

Actually if you right click and disband a unit thats inside a city the production will go to the item currently on the build queue, but theres yet to be an updater code to upgrade a unit this way.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Martin Gühmann
Actual there is no need to do this, the according unit updater strings are already part of the APOL_main_str.txt and can be used without any problems, there is also a German version of these strings.

-Martin

This is so true that I have already translated the APOL_Main_str.txt in French as part of my translation of the Apolyton Pack. This is actually one of the first file I have translated when I started working on this.

Thanks for your help Martin.

[Tamerlin]

Martin the Dane thinks the Kraken should be ugraded to the Dreadnaught, what do you think about this? (In my own opinion they are very different units...)

Do you also think the Ship of the Line should be upgraded to the Ironclad?



Maquiladora: I understand your point of view but I would have the feeling to somehow betray history if the Ironclad could be upgraded to the Submarine.

Btw, a submarine prototype was proposed by an engineer well before the first Ironclads. I can't remember exactly when but I think it was at the time of Napoleon the First and that the english Navy refused the idea as it was considered impractical.

[Tamerlin]

Double post...

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Maquiladora
I just copied this from civ3 I didnt really like to see so many units at a dead end. Theres alot of distinct units you can say would never upgrade to another, because theyre from different parts of the world.

Copied from what?

True there are many dead end units but most of them are special units that you don't produce (as the Paratrooper ) or that you use in a specific purpose (the Corporate Branch, the Cruise Missile and even the Paratrooper ).

I will include in the Read me a few datas that will allow anyone to change the Update.slc in a few minutes so that it can suit his taste.

[hexagonian]

Originally posted by Martin Gühmann Actual there is no need to do this, the according unit updater strings are already part of the APOL_main_str.txt and can be used without any problems, there is also a German version of these strings.
-Martin

But does the updater SLIC file (at least the version that Tamerlin is using) have the links to those messages? Dale didn't include the updater SLIC in the Apolyton Pack, but based on what he did in that file (APOL_main_str.txt), it looks like he had planned on it at some time.

[Martin the Dane]

Originally posted by Tamerlin
Martin the Dane thinks the Kraken should be ugraded to the Dreadnaught, what do you think about this? (In my own opinion they are very different units...)

Well actualy that was Maq's idea, and looking at it now, i'm not so sure, it depends on wether or not the Dreadnaught can attack Sea Colonies, it is a bit slower than the Kraken, so ther might be room for both in my navy.