Retreat option is just one big bug

[Maquiladora]

Ah okay i thought it was something like that. So sea cities get undersea tunnels underneath right? So what happens if you take out undersea tunnels from the game altogether? Unless its hardcoded in sea cities, i would guess this has been tried...

[Martin Gühmann]

You can remove undersea tunnels then you have the correct sprite but then something is missing, you cannot use tunnels to connect your udersea cities and I am not shure if you can then build land units in sea cities or put some of them into the sea city.

-Martin

[Pedrunn]

Martin, I ran a quick test with unmodded CTP2 and i do believe the problem is still related to the ages.

I created a sea engineer through the city editor settled a sea city. Then i granted my city with nano assembly and ultrapressured machinery and the city was still ok. The bug happened when i granted myself with others advances reaching the Diamond age.

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by Pedrunn
Martin, I ran a quick test with unmodded CTP2 and i do believe the problem is still related to the ages.

I created a sea engineer through the city editor settled a sea city. Then i granted my city with nano assembly and ultrapressured machinery and the city was still ok. The bug happened when i granted myself with others advances reaching the Diamond age.

It is not age related you forgot doing one thing: You have add a pop to the city if you gave yourself nano assembly.

So do another experiment place a sea city on the terrain while you are in genetic age but still without nano assembly the city has the right style add a pop and the city will keep its style now use the cheat editor to place a undersea tunnel on the city tile now add a pop again and you will see the difference.

-Martin

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Martin Gühmann To figure this out you could start a new game using original game from ModSwapper and put some cities on the sea and you should see how the sea cities should look. Then give youself the enabling advance for Sea Cities and Undersea Tunnels and look what happens, if the style does not change just add a pop to the city and you should see that the city looks like a land city, don't use Cradle, ApolytonPack or CityMod2 as your basic mod I added for every style seperate sea city graphics definations for the early ages unfortunatly they are equal to the land definitions.

Thanks for your reply Martin and sorry for the delay of mine. I suppose I have to use the cheat menue to achieve the manipulations you are speaking of, I have never tinkered with it but it must be fun to test things using this cheat menue. As I will certainly have a strong headache tomorrow ( ) it will certainly be more funny to discover the "sea city" bug rather than trying to devise a strategy for an ongoing CtP2 game...

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

well, actually i wish both attacker and defender could retreat (though with extra losses/damages to your units of course, its never good to show your backside to the enemy, even if running very fast) and of course the ai should be able to use it.
retreat can be very usefull if you have 2 big stacks and the opponent has one big or even bigger stack on a tile with high defense bonus and/or more sophisticated units. and i don't think it is an unrealistic way to weaken an enemy with one army and then bring in fresh ones to take them out. but of course it should be avaiable for everyone and the ai should know how to use that.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Zaphod Beeblebrox
well, actually i wish both attacker and defender could retreat (though with extra losses/damages to your units of course, its never good to show your backside to the enemy, even if running very fast) and of course the ai should be able to use it.
retreat can be very usefull if you have 2 big stacks and the opponent has one big or even bigger stack on a tile with high defense bonus and/or more sophisticated units. and i don't think it is an unrealistic way to weaken an enemy with one army and then bring in fresh ones to take them out. but of course it should be avaiable for everyone and the ai should know how to use that.

In my own opinion retreat is a way to reduce the casualties when you know you are losing a battle. In reality, probing and harassing the ennemy forces is accomplished by special light units like scouts.

In my own opinion once again, retreat should be a way to reduce the number of units lost in a battle when you are caught by surprise by the ennemy, when you face a greater number of unit than what you were expecting, when you face a better organized opponent (a better mix of offensive, flanking and ranged units) or a technologically superior army... In CtP2, and in many other Civ like game, there are few means to undermine an ennemy force before you launch your assault. In CtP2 it is rather hard to retreat in the middle of the fight as combat is resolved in a few seconds, only spies allow you to study your ennemies before attacking.

[Pedrunn]

I have tested the sea city bug. And seem like the enable advance for the sea engineer has nothing to do with the problem. The whole problem is with the enabling advance for the Undersea Tunnels (not just the TI but any TI with the combination of the "MoveCost" flag and a "terrain" flag with a sea terrain.

Therefore i have made a alfa testing of a fix for it. And it worked.

And i do believe i can fix this infamous sea city bug using fake terrains!!!

I will do some more futher testing I hope to have this fix by tomorrow. Or even today if the DG chat doesnt take long

[Maquiladora]

I thought it was possible to fix all along okay well i hoped...

[Myrddin]

The most useful (and realistic) use of retreat is in city assults

A bombardment stack can be used to reduce the strength of defenders while careful use of attack and retreat will kill off defending units while only slightly weakening your assult force - so on say the 3rd or fourth assult you can sack the city

[SMIFFGIG]

Fair enough, i can see what your saying that could be a very cool aspect of the game

But the fact that the AI is unable to in anyway use retrate let alone use it tactically and for scout missions etc makes it and overwhelming advantage to the Human

James

[Martin the Dane]

Pedrunn,

How did it go with your fix for the sea city bug?

I just noticed a pequliar bug with city sprites. When I entered the modern age I suddenly had a mirage of the old citysprite hanging in midair over my now modern cities.

Take a look at this image to se what I mean.

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by Martin the Dane
How did it go with your fix for the sea city bug?

The sea city sprite bug I don't think Pedrunn did any progress but of course he has to answer the question. Unfortunatly I don't think it is possible to fix it without using fake terrain, unfortunatly fake terrain is a lot of work and the solution might not be perfect. I think the best solution would be to get the source code or hack the ctp2.exe to fix everything properly.

Originally posted by Martin the Dane
I just noticed a pequliar bug with city sprites. When I entered the modern age I suddenly had a mirage of the old citysprite hanging in midair over my now modern cities.

For me the city looks fine, actual the castle looks like standing on the ground as it should be and as I made it. I thought it would be more interesting for the player to have the style theme also present in higher ages.

-Martin

[Pedrunn]

Dont mind this post

[Pedrunn]

Originally posted by Martin the Dane
How did it go with your fix for the sea city bug?

The democracy game made my head absent from modding. But i have mangead a fix already. Not perfect but it does fixes.

Check out here