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  • Pedrunn's Trade System

    I want to know what you guys think:

    Trade System

    here what i suggest:

    Goods

    They are pretty much the same as they usually are. Graphics in the map that you collect creating a city near them.
    But i plan to make these goods depletable. As you harvest it it looses a certain amount that is defined in the beggining of the game when this amout reachs 0 it gets depleted.
    How to know how much there is in a good reserve?
    We could create Tile Improvements that show some values in the bottom of the good like:
    1-5, 6-10, 11-15, 20-30, 30-50, 50+

    Good Bonus
    - All godds adds gold, food or prodution depending on its type. This is already implemented in mods through martin's code.
    - Most of the goods will give an bonus in happiness in the best civ3 luxuries styles.
    - Some goods will be necessary to create certain units, buildings and maybe wonders.

    Selling Goods

    The selling of the goods continues being managed by the trade screen. You choose a city to send it and sells the good. But here is where it starts the changes. Instead of creating a trade route a message pop up. Asking for how much gold do you want to sell every amount of the good and the maximum amount the buyer can actually buy. If the buyer accepts the offer a good of same kind as traded will show up next to the city wich was send with a label under the good (TI) written "Via Trade". And the amount of good as explained above.
    This way the city who bought it will have the good bonuses including the building of certain units and building as explained. It can eve sell it to others players or send to another city of yours so that it gets the bonus (being careful since it will disappear after the certain amount reachs 0.

    Buying Goods

    This will be a bit harder and will have to be done through messageboxes.
    Here how it works.
    Select a city that belongs t you. Them find a city that has the good being harvested.
    When clicking in a city that doesnt belong to you a message pop up telling wich goods are being harvested there. The player chooses one and the seller gives a certain gold value for it and a maximum number allowed to sell if he will accept to sell. The buyer them tell how much good amount he will want and them a good will be created in the city previouly selected.

    goods

    Here is a list i came up with 30 goods
    Code:
    Forest		Coal		Hard Wood	Bears
    Plains		Horses		Elephants	Spices
    Tundra		Bauxite		Oil		Caribou
    Glacier		Diamond		Bauxite		Seals
    Grassland	Horses		Cattle		Tobacco
    Desert		Saltpeter	Oil		Dates
    Swamp		Saltpeter	Oil		Alligator
    Jungle		Saltpeter	Elephant	Sugar
    Mountain	Iridium		Iron		Tea
    Hill		Coal		Iron		Coffee
    Brown Hill	Diamonds	Bauxite		Copper
    Brown Mountain	Iridium 	Iron		Copper
    White Hill	Bauxite		Oil		Rubies
    White Mountain	Diamods 	Rubies		Iron 
    				
    Water Shallow	Shallow Fish	Crustaceous	Pearls
    Water Deep	Deep Fish	Whales		ShellFish
    Water Volcano	Deep Fish	Whales		Diamonds
    Water Beach	Shallow Fish	Crustaceous	Pearls
    Water shelf	Deep Fish	Whales		Oil
    Water Rift	Deep Fish	Whales		Oil
    Water Kelp	Shallow Fish	Crustaceous	Pearls
    Water Reef	Shallow Fish	Crustaceous	Pearls
    Obs there still can be chose 1 for each terrain.
    Code:
    Good 		Source
    
    Coal		GoodMod
    Hard Wood	CTP2
    Bears		CTP2
    Horses		CIV3
    Elephants	CTP2
    Spices		CTP2
    Bauxite		GoodMod
    Oil		CTP2
    Caribou		CTP2
    Diamond		CTP2
    Seals		GoodMod
    Cattle		CTP1 cattle unit
    Tobacco		CTP2
    Saltpeter	CIV3
    Dates		GoodMod
    Alligator	CTP2
    Sugar		CTP
    Iridium		???
    Iron		GoodMod
    Tea		CTP2
    Coffee		CTP2
    Copper		GoodMod
    Rubies		CTP2
    Fish		GoodMod
    Crustaceous	CTP2 Crabs
    Pearls		CTP2
    Whales		CTP2
    ShellFishs	CTP2 giant squid
    Other Features to think about:

    - Stored Food - If a city has growth at the maximum value (10.000) will be created a food good (probably the best graphic is the goodmod rice) wich can be traded and protects a city from starvation or may boost the food in a city or terrain.

    - Colonies - With this system colonies will be Tile improvements that sends a good to its owner the nearest city. The colonies can be created by units with the order create colony or could be places as regular imps. The lavel "Via Colony" Can be added.

    - Pirating - Instead of pirating trade routes you have to pirate goods. A pirated good has some amounts of it sent to the nearest city. The lavel "Via Piracy" Can be added.

    Forget all about trade routes they have to be dropped because i cant control when they broke.
    "Kill a man and you are a murder.
    Kill thousands and you are a conquer.
    Kill all and you are a God!"
    -Jean Rostand

  • #2
    Great ideas, Pedrunn!! I espescially like the one about the depletion of the trade goods. Do you plan to implement similar to Civ3? It seems like forever since I've played Civ3 , so I may be wrong, but IIRC when a good becomes depleted, a new source becomes available somewhere else on the map within a turn or two.

    Anyway, you've been modding like crazy lately, and we are all going to reap the benefits, so thank you...

    Keep up the good work

    -C-

    Comment


    • #3
      Oh yes, and I'm still looking forward to strategic resources

      Comment


      • #4
        Very Amibitious, Pedrunn. I like the ideas a lot!

        On top of what you proprose, I would like to add the concept of "finished goods". A city that is receiving cotton for instance, could build a textile mill through which a new good "linen" would be produced. Or tobacco to cigars, iron to cars, etc. the secondary or finished goods would have more value than the original good.

        Comment


        • #5
          I don't have any time but here's a list of historically pretty important trade goods that are still missing:

          Salt
          Jade
          Silk
          Rice
          Cotton
          Uranium
          Gold
          Silver
          Rubber
          Tungsten
          Grapes
          Hemp
          Dye
          Administrator of WePlayCiv -- Civ5 Info Centre | Forum | Gallery

          Comment


          • #6
            Sounds very good pedrunn - this kind of thing coupled with any work on the strategic resources idea's will make huge(and better!)changes to the game. The depleation idea is excellent - there is no such thing as an eternal resource(although solar power et all come close ).
            'The very basis of the liberal idea – the belief of individual freedom is what causes the chaos' - William Kristol, son of the founder of neo-conservitivism, talking about neo-con ideology and its agenda for you.info here. prove me wrong.

            Bush's Republican=Neo-con for all intent and purpose. be afraid.

            Comment


            • #7
              Nice to see you guys liked. I was afraid i was going too radical. Specially because with this feature the city will be surrounded by a dozen of goods wich may look a bit odd yet really cool.

              Finished goods, This is possible and is really a good idea but comes the graphic problem. I will try to do the code first. If everything works out we can try this.

              Locutus. I left a empty space for every terrain for this mainly. I wanted to hear some thoughts from the community. So can be easily added new goods without having to create new terrains.

              Salt, nice point i believe the best is for beach and desert terrains

              Silk and Cotton, those are related and i want my system to include the most number of goods of earh it can thats why i renamed crabs to crustaceous and giat squid to shellfishs. So we can add the silk (although i think odd to drop a original good) to the system. But i could say the animal also give the same as silk when comes to bonus (as fur). So i guess just cotton (maybe renamed for something else to include others plants that give silk) is fine.

              Rice, I did not incleded because i was thinkin in the food feature i suggested. But it can be included and as a see renaming it for cereal wich means it will include the 5 types of cereal in the world that are the basis of human alimentation.
              Note: i cant remember wich the other three other than rice and wheat are type of foods classified as cereal. And i am getting curious

              Uranium, funny this should have been included for nukes I guesss i got things mixed up with Iridium. It will be in.

              Gold and Silver, I thougt that those goods were better off specially gold since the monetary currency of the game is gold.

              Tungsten, This is a nice good.

              Grapes, nice one but i was thinking more in a Fruits goods from the nordicus civ3 reources. What you think?

              Hemp, Other than to make paper (wich i believe can be done by others world resources) and smoke wich are the real benefits. While creating the list of goods i really considered rename tobacco for Drugs to make it more general but i thought it did not looked good but the Drugs good would be nice.

              Dye, this is in the front in the list of the luxury-like goods to be added

              Rubber, that can be added but i am afraid we will have to add a new terrain to jungles. This type of terain is far the one with most number of possible goods.

              Jade, is this really that important? I considered create a jewlry good and create a new sprite with graphics of the rubies, diamonds, emeralds, saphires and jade squeezed together. What you think?
              "Kill a man and you are a murder.
              Kill thousands and you are a conquer.
              Kill all and you are a God!"
              -Jean Rostand

              Comment


              • #8
                Hemp's main use would of course be ropes (and medicinal

                But what's seriously missing is copper and tin. Alternatively bronze (which is composed of those two metals). These two were probably among teh most important ancient resources and once again became very important after the renaissance (early firearms etc.).

                Marc aka Caran...

                P.S.: Horses is something I wanted to see implemented for a while now, bloody nuisance that anyone can build cavalry and any number too. Though a realistic system would be very hard to create.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Still ropes can be done with many materials. I still dont see whay implementing Hemp.

                  copper is already in. For gameplay better have just copper as a bronze prerequisite so tin is out.
                  "Kill a man and you are a murder.
                  Kill thousands and you are a conquer.
                  Kill all and you are a God!"
                  -Jean Rostand

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Must have missed copper, is fine then.

                    As to hemp, it was what made the great navies (rope and sails were almost exclusively hemp) move, but I agree, it's not all that important. Which reminds me, how about tar? Or make oil a requisite for somethings that used tar in the earlier ages.

                    Marc aka Caran...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Pedrunn
                      Locutus. I left a empty space for every terrain for this mainly. I wanted to hear some thoughts from the community. So can be easily added new goods without having to create new terrains.
                      I figured that, hence my post

                      Silk and Cotton, those are related and i want my system to include the most number of goods of earh it can thats why i renamed crabs to crustaceous and giat squid to shellfishs.
                      Cotton and Silk are quite different. Cotton comes from a plant, Silk from an animal. Cotton has been used since the beginning of time to produce everyday clothing (it's cheap and durable, but not particularly strong), Silk has always been a luxury (it's very expensive and also VERY strong - one of the strongest materials on earth, the Mongols and later other Asians used it as armour). Silk was one of the major trading goods of pre-colonial time ('Silk Road' anyone?), Cotton was one of the major trading goods of from colonial times onwards. So although both are used as material for clothing, they are very different (just as Copper and Iron are different, even though there both metals and mainly used for tools and weapons). Cotton *is* quite similar to Flax, Linen, Wool (although Wool too comes from animals), etc, so I would agree that it's not a good idea to have all of these included as well.

                      Edit: an additional difference is that Silk is a product (originally) exclusive to China, whereas Cotton and similar products can be found pretty much all over the world.

                      Rice, I did not incleded because i was thinkin in the food feature i suggested. But it can be included and as a see renaming it for cereal wich means it will include the 5 types of cereal in the world that are the basis of human alimentation.
                      Note: i cant remember wich the other three other than rice and wheat are type of foods classified as cereal. And i am getting curious
                      5 types of cereal grains? :confuse: I can name 6: rice, wheat, maize, barley, rye, oats. I guess generalizing all of these as one type of trade good makes sense...

                      Gold and Silver, I thougt that those goods were better off specially gold since the monetary currency of the game is gold.
                      They're amongst the most important trade goods in human history, why?? Who cares if gold is also the term for currency? That doesn't take anything away from it's importance as a trade good in human history...

                      Grapes, nice one but i was thinking more in a Fruits goods from the nordicus civ3 reources. What you think?
                      The difference between Grapes and Apples or Banana's or whatever is that Wine is made from it, that IMHO makes it worthy of a seperate trade good...

                      Hemp, Other than to make paper (wich i believe can be done by others world resources) and smoke wich are the real benefits. While creating the list of goods i really considered rename tobacco for Drugs to make it more general but i thought it did not looked good but the Drugs good would be nice.
                      Ah, the usual stereotype: hemp == pot. Hemp has always been a MAYOR resource with far more uses than just as a drug: it's used for ropes, clothing, paper, food, paint, construction (it's stronger than steel but more workable than wood!), fuel, medicin, etc. If overly paranoid governments hadn't declared it illegal, it would dominate the marketplace today...

                      Rubber, that can be added but i am afraid we will have to add a new terrain to jungles. This type of terain is far the one with most number of possible goods.
                      True, Jungle is a very diverse type of terrain but you still have one slot free and Saltpeter is already present in several other terrain types (and it makes to no sense to have Saltpeter in Jungle: it's usually found in dry places such as deserts and mountains (Arabia, not in humid places like Jungle)...

                      Jade, is this really that important?
                      YES! Jade was to the Far East Asians (primarily Chinese) and pre-Columbian Americans (Maya, Aztec, Inca) what Gold is to us Westerners: the most precious, enchanting and valuable material around. We had our colonial conquests in the 16th/17th century and our Gold Rushes in the 19th century, the Chinese and Americans both had a similar obsession with Jade. It's just another gem to us, but it's been a VERY important material for numerous other civilizations.
                      Administrator of WePlayCiv -- Civ5 Info Centre | Forum | Gallery

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Locutus
                        Jade, is this really that important? I considered create a jewlry good and create a new sprite with graphics of the rubies, diamonds, emeralds, saphires and jade squeezed together. What you think?
                        So you mean you can event currency based on Jade. Nice one. Just wonder if I should put them together or have the techs jade currency and gold currency, but then I should have silver currency, too. So it should be just one currency tech there.

                        -Martin
                        Civ2 military advisor: "No complaints, Sir!"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Although Jade had the same 'enchanting' effect as Gold, it was AFAIK never actually used as currency (probably because it's much rarer). Metals (gold and silver but many others as well: bronze, tin, copper, nickel, etc) are by far the most common form of currency. If you are looking for an alternative form of currency, I would suggest Salt. It was used a form of currency for a long time throughout Eurasia (but mostly Europe and the Near East) and Africa - and it is in fact still in use as currency in some parts of Africa today (not as an official national currency of course).

                          Jade was initially used for tools and weapons and such because of it's hardness (like metals) - and was later, as people assigned more value and significance to it, only used for jewelry and ornaments and such, like (among others) the pre-Columbian Americans and Egyptians did with gold. But unless I'm very much mistaken, it never served as currency.
                          Administrator of WePlayCiv -- Civ5 Info Centre | Forum | Gallery

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Pedrunn
                            Finished goods, This is possible and is really a good idea but comes the graphic problem. I will try to do the code first. If everything works out we can try this.
                            If you can do the other things you want, this should be nothing more than a speed bump for you. I have faith in your abilities!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Woohoo Civ3 style trade goods at last, and all the other extra stuff Pedrunn is planning on implementing making it a better system than Civ3's if it all works.

                              Just a quick note, i think that in CtP2. The amount of gold displayed in top right should be renamed tresury, because 1. not all of a civilizations money would be gold but jade etc 2. Some Civs didnt even have gold 3. Modern day currency is not stored in just gold but Platimum too if im correct and im sure there are other points against it too.



                              P.S (Pedrunn) Will resources run out and re-appear
                              Will there be luxury and strategic resources eg Civ3
                              Will you need to build roads to get a specific resources
                              Will colonies be used the same as in Civ3 only with extra ability to build them offshore and instead of needing a road having to build a port in the colony (only thing available to build in a colony


                              I think all of the above should be included + what Locutus said

                              Good Luck !
                              Oxygen should be considered a drug
                              Tiberian Sun Retro
                              My Mod for Tiberian Sun Webmaster of
                              http://www.tiberiumsun.com

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