MOD Chaos

[Lou Wigman]

I am about to start a series of LAN games with some friends and have been reviewing the posts here to see which MOD would be most suitable. Gentlemen, this is site is in utter CHAOS. There's slic code all over the place.

Some versions of some of these are included in some of the mods. Basically its impossible to work out what the hell is going on here. Somebody needs to grab the bull by the horn here and try and bring some order to this chaos. What is desparately needed is some sort of listing stating which bits of slic code are included in which mods.

Furthermore as new slic code is generated some methodology needs to be adopted to allow these to be included in the most popular mods. No offense to Hexagonian but the status of CRADLE is bewildering. There are so many download options that I am totally lost.

There are some very good ideas floating around and I would like to see them implemented effectively. I am sure that the SLICers feel the same way. After all the only satisfaction that they derive is to see THEIR code being used.

Can we put our heads together and come up with something sensible here?

[WesW]

As far as I know, there is no chaos with the mods, due to our convention of giving unique prefixes to our files. And then there is mod swapper to let you conveniently switch from one mod to the next.

As far as the Medpack is concerned, simply install it, all seven parts (it's grown to about 30 megs; what you gonna do?), and you should not have any conflicts with any other mod, or with the original game, assuming that you use modswapper properly as outlined in the install readme.

[Hermann the Lombard]

Originally posted by WesW
As far as I know, there is no chaos with the mods, due to our convention of giving unique prefixes to our files. And then there is mod swapper to let you conveniently switch from one mod to the next..

Yesbut...

I think you missed the focus of Lou's message. Yes, Modswapper keeps the various named mods sorted out, but that doesn't tell Lou (or me) which version of (say) the disaster code is in MedMod vs Cradle 1.2, vs Cradle 1.3 Beta, vs SETI Victory Cradle, vs Apolyton Pack, ad nauseum. I still keep getting spurious "x=,y=," debug messages, even after the Wombat sent me a corrected version (obviously the mod is using a different copy). It's even worse with the latest Triggs Diplomod, as it has evolved through the testing thread.

A cross-reference would be nice, but who would have time to keep it up to date?

[WesW]

Well, if you have problems with different versions of slic code, then that "should" mean that the code is in development, and you are being a beta tester if you are getting versions with bugs in it.
I am not sure what you can do other than keep up with the threads of the mods you use. The mod makers should document what versions of the code they are putting in their mods if the code is still in development, or at least note that the code is in a beta state.

[exeter0]

I find I want the best of both worlds... I want to play with the latest SLICS etc but I am driving my friends crazy 'cause they can't keep their mod configs up with mine.

The solution we found was to use a shareware product called Synchromagic... this allows you to map with your friends drives over the network and synchronise your game data folders.

[exeter0]

Having a further thought...

When new independent SLIC's or new versions (like Diplomod) are developed it would be good to know if they can be applied over the major mods.

So maybe when SLICS are announced in the forum... a compatibility checklist is provided, like:

MedMod II......................YES/NO
Apolyton Pack 1.2...........YES/NO
Cradle 1.3......................YES/NO

Is this practical?

[Hywel Dda]

The composition of the Mods is indeed difficult to follow, and there is indeed not enough information available.

Apart from anything else, this makes the Mods very inaccessible to newcomers (or is that the intention?!).

I realise that Mod-writers like Wes would rather spend their time writing their Mods than writing *about* them, but I think that there is a definate case for better tracking of what the each Mod includes, particularly in the case of the SLICs.

Wes is not the worst offender, however: it doesn't help that Cradle includes several out-of-date mod listings in Modswapper. The author claims that this is due to previous users failing to delete old versions of the Mod, but he is mistaken! Even new users get a confusing and irrelevent list of some 7-odd Mods - completely unexplained in the Read-Me (or is that the Anti-Newbie Filter at work again?!)

Some tidying up is definately in order.

[hexagonian]

I'm now becoming aware of the needs of the Multiplayer community - something I had never considered too much until now. (never gave it too much thought, I'm sorry to say...) I'm going to make a greater effort to accomodate them in the future too.

Wes has a point that relates to the whole issue of SLIC, because SLIC creators will often post a fix for a file, making it hard to keep track of what is the latest version of the Mod.

Couple that with the effort by Modmakers to continually fix small game imbalances and bugs, and it becomes even more difficult to hold to a consistent standard. I'm guilty of that problem, because I tend to tweak the files as I play and hear reports, because I want to continually improve Cradle, and I want to make those fixes available ASAP to players - many of whom have high playing standards. (For instance, Leonardo just notified me of 2 incorrect graphic designations in Cradle which had not been caught until now - about a year of playing)

Lately, what I have been trying to do is to limit changes to what I consider to be the base files, and to package new elements (such as Leonardo's graphic updates that are currently available for download) as a separate file from the main download. (Over time, I will wrap it into the main download though.)

The victory files that I recently posted were set up as separate options in Modswapper, mainly because they had to be created that way. At this point in time, there is no way to have all of those options as a single playing option either.

All I can say is that if you are wanting to use Cradle for multiplay, you can keep a copy of the Cradle 12_19 Update (these are all the text files only - there have not been any added SLIC files since then, except Peter's Diplomod, which is handled separately in the Modswapper setup) on your system, as well as the Update you are planning to use (the most current one on my site has Leonardo's small fixes, posted yesterday), and unzip it over the existing files. This will make sure that you have all of the correct files on all systems.

At the same time, because of the way Modswapper works, you will not be overwriting any of the other Med Mod/Apolyton files, because of the way all the files are labeled. I'm sure that any graphic files that are overwritten from Mod to Mod will not conflict, because the Modders were using an agreed-upon set of designations for the sprites/sounds/videos.

As for consistent SLIC files between the Mods, that is almost an impossibility, given the fact that many of the SLIC files depend on various enable advances to work, and those are different from Mod to Mod

If you want to cut down the Cradle options that are available in your setup, simply delete the various (CRA..._)gamefile.txt files that correspond to that option (open the file and look for the descriptive copy near the bottom of the file).

At this point in time, the most current files are
CRADLE 1.3

and the three victory options
CRADLE - SETI Colony
CRADLE - Global Empire
CRADLE - Birth of an Empire

All other options will not be upgraded

Peter's Diplomod is also set up as a separate Modswapper option - and all files related to that option have a separate designation so they will not cause a conflict with any other of the established Cradle options. Consider that file in an early beta stage, and I was not planning on making that option as the standard until it was balanced...(and I had noted on my post about the file that it was in a test phase)

In the future, I will try to limit, even more, the files that I post, and will try to label them better - even the small updates and fixes that I sometimes post without notice because the fixes are so minor.

At the same time, player need to keep track of what they download, communicate with one another, and to limit themselves to downloading some upgrades if they are multiplaying. (I'm keeping Leonardo's update off of my setup now because I'm about to start a succession game)

[Hywel Dda]

Very impressed by the quick response, from two very major players, to the points raised in this thread.

Some sort of readily accessible FAQ might be an idea? (If there is one already where is it?)

There is a problem in that most posts in the CTP2 forum are between "people in the know". What about FAQs for "MPs/SLICers/idiots/newbies/even-lower- forms-of-life"?

Thanks to you both for my favourite CTP2 MODs

[Lou Wigman]

I appreciate what has been said here. I agree with what Hywer Dda has written. The mods are not very accessible to those who are not in the 'know'. I have been haunting these boards for some time now and I am becoming increasingly confused. Martin G, as just one example, is producing some excellent SLIC code that I definitely want access to. But even he is having to make special mods for each major mods. Yes, there are links to each of these but then at least some of this is already included in each of the downloads. I am more confused than ever.

Here is a start (and only a start) to what I think should be done.
There are already 'sticky' threads on each of the major mods. But these essentially discuss various aspects of each as well as bug reports and suggestions. I think it would be appropriate to create several new permanent threads containing information about the the status of each mod as well as links to various download options.

[Bad Newbie]

Thanks for that Hex. I suppose my main question would be if the files ziped and on your site are kept up-to-date, or do I need to track down all the developments on Cradle 1.3 and related code on the threads? I leave and come back pretty infrequently, so I just got arounds to playing 1.3.

[Peter Triggs]

One problem is the way the database has been down for so long. Having to download things from all over the place can't help but increase the confusion factor. But there's a light at the end of the tunnel:

And you have here a file database for CTP2 and for CTP1 as well. If you forget the art of non updating and would engage Locutus as CTP2 database manager (he is still ready for this job) than Apolyton could be really the Great Civ side as it could be. Look on the page Markos you didn't updated the CTP2 database since October the second, at least you could update the number of downloads.

-Martin

there are more serious issues that prevent some things to move on.
i can safely say though that Locutus will be a database manager before the end of this quarter [Markos]

Woohoo! arty: (one other advantage CFC has over Apolyton: a arty: smily )
That's great news, Markos, having the databases open for additions again will be a very good development for the CtP1/2 community
I'd better keep my agenda empty then, there are a LOT of files that need to be added...

Well, I'm off now. Gotta go calculate when end of this quarter will be [Locutus]

But I agree that we also have to get our heads around the profusion of SLIC projects that are being generated.

[Martin Gühmann]

OK here are my slic mods and which version is in whisch mod (So far I remember and have the files accessable, but Cradle is really a little bit complicated).

Soundfix V.1.1 in Cradle, MedPack2, ApolytonPack and GoodMod.

Commerce Improvements for AIs v.2.0 in GoodMod and World of War in the version for the original game, costumized versions are in MedPack2 and Cradle.

Forts For AIs v.1.0 in World Of War and GoodMod a custumized version is in Cradle Deity slayer edition. So far no mod uses v.1.1.

Now it becomes a little bit tricky:

New City Capture Option for CTP2 is in World of War(v.1.3), in MedPack(v.1.2), in GoodMod(v.1.3) and in Cradle(v.1.1) (Deity Slayer version). The latest version 1.4 is far in none of the mods. Version 1.4 is compartible with all mods as long as you don't remove the UNIT_SLAVER from your unit.txt.

All these mods in the version for the original game can be found on my page.

There is also a mod out here on Apolyton called Happy Buildings for AIs I don't know the version in that it is out, in my current GoodMod test setup it is version 1.2. I left it for some time alone as focused on other things as it was also a little bit buggy, but the version in GoodMod is now running without any problems. So it will be definetly in the next version of GoodMod, unfortunatly it reqires also a modified strategies.txt therefore I am not shure if I will release it as stand alone mod.

The more important project is now one that should stack AI units remove settlers from stacks move in city stacked sea transporter into the sea and load it with units, move a unit out of a city if there is unit in the build queue near completion. Move stacks from the road if they want to fortify there. This one would need heavy customization for other mods.

Well, I'm off now. Gotta go calculate when end of this quarter will be [Locutus]

Yeah that is the serious question when the end of this quarter will be. I am afraid only Markos knows.

-Martin

[Dale]

For those who wish to know about ApolytonPack and Word At War, in the readme folder is a history file with what gets updated to what version. That'll identify which files are included in the MOD (note: Apolyton Pack is WAYYYYYYYYYY behind in that respect on versioning.)

[WesW]

I decided to order the Medpack's slic by author, in order to make it easier to update and keep straight. Therefore, if Dale comes out with a new version of the diplomod, he can take his file from the Medpack, paste the new code in, and release it. Same thing with Martin.
Where I have used customized versions of their code, they can either customize the new versions and release them, or let me know when a new version is finished so that I can look at it and decide what to do. I try and check in on the forum here every day or two, and I don't recall seeing threads about some of the triggers mentioned here.
Most triggers should not need updating, since they perform specific actions. However, I don't think any of us realized a year ago how much could be done with slic, and how big some of the triggers could grow.