Medieval Pack II v1.1: A Call to Arms

[Gen.Dragolen]

Of Bread and Circuses

Wes,

I have a suggestion to aid with the numbers of slaves that accumulate after a protracted war. Only when you conquer a city with slaving units, then as part of the population loss from refugees, you take slaves as well, or take the whole population, save 10000 souls.

This would correspond to what has happened in history. Most of the people in combat units could expect to die when their unit or army routed and were persued by the victor. Actual combat casualties would be light until their morale broke. This applied up until WW1. After that, whole units could be wiped out with automatic weapons and artillery before their morale could break.

I think that it shouldn't be too hard to modify one of the SLIC's to have X% of the population run as refugees and the rest be taken as slaves to the nearest cities. If it leaves just 1-2 population point in the city, great. I wouldn't want what happened with one city in my last serious action, where it was 1 original population and 8 slaves. You would allow only about 25% of the population in a city to be slaves - too expensive/ impractical to manage many more.

And Bluevoss makes a good point about Carthage. Slaves would be another Trade Good. But that will wait for another post.


General Dragolen

Good Hunting!

[Cube]

not having too many slaves in one city

Well I for one don't have many slaves in one city. I use the fact that slaves require military units to gaurd them. I move my units out of all my cities next the unit and leave units in the city where I want the slave. This way I can control where the slave goes, and when I have to many slaves in one city. Sometimes though I get a slave when my units are attacked by barbarians, but I usually attack them before they attack me. In this way I have almost the same number of slaves in my cities. Unfortunetely the AI doesn't do this. I for one think there isn't enough slaving in the game, I have never been able to get my slave population above 15 percent of my population. I think that the Idea of the slaves reproducing as time passes is a good Idea. it would most definetly increase the percent of slaves.

[WesW]

Well, if there are too many slaves in the game, I could remove the enslavement ability from mounted units and the victory enslavement ability from the Slaver. This would leave the Swordsman and Heavy Swordsman and ground Elite units as the only units with the ability to get slaves from battles.
I usually use mounted units as my quick reaction force to Barbarian attacks, so this would remove many of the early slaves you get. I normally only used ground attack units when attacking cities or in major battles with other civs, so this may give us the right setting. Removing the victory line from the Slaver would get rid of the human advantage of stacking Slavers for battles, which is something the AI does not do.
It is not possible to select a percentage chance of getting slaves from battles. The text flag is simply an on/off flag. Wouter would be the one to answer as far as any slic triggers, but I am not aware of any that would create slaves after a battle.

Also, you might want to reduce the city limits in govern.txt if you play with a lot of civs, say 16, on a gigantic map. If the average AI runs out of space to peacefully expand after 6 or 8 cities, then that is what you need to set the limits at for Monarchy, City State and Theocracy. Once you find those limits, you would need to reduce other governments by a similar percentage.

[Huysmans_666]

Hi guys,

Been a long time since I was last here, went abroad for a while, but now I'm back and I've been playing the updated 1.1 version for a week now.

I'm goin' to give my impressions now and I hope that I don't say some things you all already discussed...if so sorry !

It's looking great, especially the empires of the AI are much more compact than they used to be, before it was "a few cities all over the place" thus creating choatic map outlooks.
Know they're tightly joined together makign a real empire.
Futhermore the terraforming still seems to be a problem, I've read a post somewhere.

The diplomacy doesn't seems for me to have changed a lot... maybe I'm wrong and offended someones work....I'm sorry !

All the new units now work, last of my version, most of the extra units did not even appear !? But ok now !

Well, I can say this refugee trigger is great, real war-like scenario !

AI doesn't seems to use the stealth units a lot, clerics, spies, slavers and such a lot ?!

Oh BTW, these are my experiences in a 7 civ impossible game on a custom HUGE map (140x120) or somethin'

Also, where is everybody gone, locutus, paul, etc. they gone from the scene or what ?!


And indeed what I've read, I'm close to the english, and they did not build one coastal citie, neither did the other AI's so I'm roaming the sees by myself
How are two nations at war goin'to conquer each other when they are on different isles ?!?!?
The human player can easily win this way !

What happend to all the other mods, are they still being updated or is evryone busy with medmod ?!

[janilxx]

Originally posted by Huysmans_666
Also, where is everybody gone, locutus, paul, etc. they gone from the scene or what ?!

I suppose that they are gone and that is my fault. Check my other thread("Did I kill threads" or something like that)

What happend to all the other mods, are they still being updated or is evryone busy with medmod ?!

I changed to play Apolyton Pack and it is more suitable to me than MedPack. Apolyton Pack is not developed anymore(we could say it is definitely ready). Cradle is still under development(if I am right).

[Cube]

modern age too long

looking at advance list.txt, some of the first advances of the information age are from 1950-1960 AD ex: equal rights and conservation, and what's up with automatic rifles, we have had machine guns since world war I or so, yet in medmod you get them at the end of the modern age. If you have an average of 2500-3000 science through the modern age it will take you about 100 years or more to finish.

In my current game I entered the modern age in 1915 and ended sometime around 2020 or so, and I'm researching equal rights in 2040. So I decided to start over from 1800 and reduce the cost of some of the advances. I reduced automatic rifles from 25000 or so to 8762 and made it age six instead of seven. I reduced immunization to abut 7000 and made it age five. I figured that radio and mass media are basically the same advance, so I added them and divided by four. So they now cost 5775 each. I reduced some of the advances that cost about 12000-13000 to below ten thousand and made flight cost about 8000 or so from 16000.

Now the total science needed to finish the modern age is about 220,000 from about 270,000. So now the modern age will take about 70-80 years with 2500- 3000 science per year. If you enter the modern age in 1880 you should be done by 1950-1960 AD which is historically accurate.

[Bluevoss]

Cube,

Is there any chance you could post that advances file to a site someplace were we could get it? Or could you send me a copy to bluevoss@bellsouth.net? I'd really like a shot at that. Right now, I hit the modern age feeling pretty proud of myself, and come out 50 years late and feeling stupid.

[Cube]

well here's the file, there's a feature in the new post thingy that lets you post a file, but it's not in the edit post window.

[Bluevoss]

Cube,

Thanks loads for the file - I'll put it in tonight.

I just finished a game about 10 minutes ago. I had 40 cities and the other civs (that I allowed to survive) had about 3 each. At the end of the game, I was still only about 20-30 years beyond our time. Nice graphics of me winning with war walkers and all that - IF ONLY!

So I'll pop in your file and give it a spin. Also, bigger maps for better opponents. Cant wait!

THanks again!

[Cube]

AIs lowering production to increase happiness

As you all probably know by now, I use cheat mode to check what the AI is doing. Well when I do this I notice the AI lowers production in order to increase happiness. Some of them even had it all the way down to 4 hours. This is bad, because they always have readiness set to war, so they build slowly. They also don't produce as much pollution as they should. I looked in strategies.txt and saw they don't have entertainers in the popassignmentelement thing. So, I changed that so they use 10 % entertainers on all the popasignment thingies. I just edited this, so it's untested.

Well here's the file.

[Cube]

I think I migh have figured out why the AI cities are so unhappy, they don't build enough happines buildings. I was using cheat mode yesterday, and saw that the AIs have at most +5 hapiness from buildings, but on average they have about +3 hapiness from buildings. My suggestion is to add happiness buildings to the production build list, other build list that are likely to add unhappiness. I for one almost always have to build a movie theater, or a stadium after I build the oil refinery. You could also try to move the happiness sequence up in buildlist sequences.txt, or incease the priority for happiness in strategies.txt.

well this is pretty pathetic I'm talking to myself. Could someone please post. I know 3 people have downloaded my file, could you post your results. I don't want to keep this post alive by talking to myself, but I will if I have to. Why is no one posting, is there a problem posting to this thread or something or are you to busy palying the game.

[Pedrunn]

Originally posted by Cube
well this is pretty pathetic I'm talking to myself. Could someone please post. I know 3 people have downloaded my file, could you post your results. I don't want to keep this post alive by talking to myself, but I will if I have to. Why is no one posting, is there a problem posting to this thread or something or are you to busy palying the game.

This really is bad. This post is here for two weeks now.
Not a answer from Wes or other players.
And to think this was the most active forum back them
I did got your strategies.txt, and i adapted it to my mod. Seems to be working ok but i did not direct test it. At least i get less revolts (this may be a coincidence though).

The only thing that does not make this a tragedy is because 9 people got the advance.txt and 5 others yours strategies.txt
Why doesnt these people respond?
Wes, did you left the forum ?

[Dale]

Yeah, I got an email from Wes almost a week ago. He was thanking me for my contribution and pointing out that he no longer has time to MOD. Another MOD'der drops outa the tree.

[Pedrunn]

Originally posted by Dale
Yeah, I got an email from Wes almost a week ago. He was thanking me for my contribution and pointing out that he no longer has time to MOD. Another MOD'der drops outa the tree.

I had thought so.
Still he could have tod us. I would like to thank him for making CTP2 worthy playing. If it wasnt for him I would still be waiting civ3 come out since may .

[Cube]

well I'm back.

First I'd like to express my sympathies and condolences to the people who lost someone, in this tragedy, and say that we will overcome this.

It's good to see someone posting to this thread again.

So far in my game I'm in 2060 ad or so and I still think I'm behind in tech to where I should be, but I'm still the most advanced nation. I recently discovered neural interface and enacted Virtual Democracy (VD), expecting an increase in science, but it only increased a slight amount. The thing is now with VD when I set a scientist in a city it gives about 40 something science instead of the 30 something of democracy. My production also seems to have increased and the tolerance for pollution decreased. This teamed up with the fact that Neural interface obsoletes the public park caused me to add about 2 or 3 entertainers to my production cities and my cities that were at 74 happiness. Now I could build the VR Amusement Park, so I did that in my 3 or 4 top production cities, and also built happiness buildings in my other unhappy cities. All in all this happiness problem lasted for about 15 to 20 years to solve.

once I built the VR Amusement parks though I realized I could build more production buildings so I did. until now I could only build nuclear plants in my mid productiion cities, but now I could build them there if I add the recycling plant and maybe the VR Amusement Park. Apperantly the happiness buildings are designed to allow you to build all the production buildings and have few or no happiness problems, but since I added the electric plant, I needed to increase happiness, so I addeded 1 happiness to the movie theater, and 1 to the VR Amusement Park. I also made it so the airport actually produces pollution by adding 10% population pollution. I also think mass transit will last for a very long time and won't be replaced by eco-transit, so I got rid of the obsolete advance, and combined the upkeeps for mass transit, and eco-transit into one, so now it will cost the same to have both of them as it did when mass transit went obsolete.

I have been noticing that the AI civs are going broke, and most of them have a negative budget, even the ones tha used to be profitable are now losing money and their aqueducts are now being sold. Does any know if there's a way to make it so aqueducts and other growth improvements can't be sold. I did some calculations of how much gold AI civs are lossing now that they have both granaries and food silos in most of their cities. They have about 200 or so citizens each and if all their cities have food silos and granaries that means they are losing about 400 or so gold. Does any one know if gold per citizen is added to science, or is it just added to the surplus like trade gold. I decided to get rid of the -1 gold per citizen from the granary and food silo and give them set upkeeps, they now have 4 and 10 upkeep. I also lowered upkeeps for other buildings like the stadium.

I also noticed that happiness is still a problem, Most of the AI civs aren't building upgadred happiness buildings for some reason and the changes I made to strategies.txt aren't enough, so I added 10 percent more entertainers. Now size 10 cities will have 1 entertainer and size 20 cities 2 entertainers and so on.

It's sad to hear about wes leaving, I was so looking forward to the crusades. He made call to power 2 worth playing, I for one decided not to buy civ 3 when I heard theres no future gameplay, and no PW. I was expecting to have civ3 be like ctp2 but better, from what I've heard though I think I won't like it. I have enjoyed playing medmod despite all the problems I reported, but that was just done to aid medmod and hopefully make it better. Wes I'd like to say that If you're still here, you could give the medmod project to some one else, because I really want to see it finished. I for one couldn't handle such extreme modding, but you could release your recent changes and plans for the crusades, and we could finish it.

Well I know of no way to attach 2 files, so I'll attach buildings.txt and then post again with strategies.txt.