The Medieval Pack II Beta: The Gathering

[Rhuarc]

Sorry about that Alleycat. Guess I should have looked a little closer! Thanks for your help!

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DO, OR DO NOT, THERE IS NO TRY - Yoda

[Pintello]

Hi All,

Actually the Great Wall now gives you a wall in every city until it expires, along with the barbarian advantage. That is listed in the spread sheets Wes has so kindly provided us.

Timothy Pintello

[Rhuarc]

Thanks Pintello,
That helps out a lot! One question, what are the names of the spreadsheets that have all this info in them? Is there only one or are there different ones for units wonders and advances? Thanks for all your help guys!

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DO, OR DO NOT, THERE IS NO TRY - Yoda

[David Murray]

I wonder which direction the MedMod is headed in. I played again yesterday. I found that the AI was sending nobles out even as early as 3600, and that's when I decided to uninstall CTP2. The early period should be a period of war, unrest and civilization building--not diplomacy. The AI is even less aggressive than it was--at least before it explored with units and had a distrustful stance towards others in the beginning, but now, thanks to the Mod, it can participate in advanced diplomacy right from the very start. This simply isn't realistic. If it were a bug, I would keep supporting this Mod, but it seems like it's a gameplay feature.

While I support all the hard work put into the Mod, all the lovely units and revamped tech tree, I just don't like some of the other ideas, like Militias and nobles, and some of the other small tweaks.

Oh well. Perhaps I will work on my *own* Mod. :-) (Hahaha...yeah right....)

[Rhuarc]

What direction would you rather it head? The whole point behind the civ series is that you can remake history how you want it to be. If you would rather be warlike in the beginning game that is up to you, but the game needs to stay open ended enough for other style players to enjoy it too. What is so unrealistic about the militia trigger? Is it unrealistic to thinkt hat if somebody was attacking your town you would fight back? Of course not! That's the whole idea behind the militia is that the people of the town will fight back. Sorry, and I don't mean to offend you in anyway, but it just sounds to me like you would rather the civ series turn into something like C&C. There's nothing wrong with that style game it just wasn't what civ was meant to be. Well, now that I told you what I think feel free to tell me what you think! (should I hold my ears?)

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DO, OR DO NOT, THERE IS NO TRY - Yoda

[alley_cat]

Well said Rhuarc!!
but I think that I can see some of point: Theoretically, when a tribe was just created somewhere in the far past, it didn't try to negotiate with other tribes simply because it didn't know of their exsistance. It will usually see them hostile and try to attack them, just like a pack of wolves attacking another pack if they enter their territory. so I do think that the noble thing should come just a tiny bit later. Other than that you were 100% right!

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Let people hear what they want to hear

[Rhuarc]

You are probably right about the Noble, aleey_cat. Now that I think about it I guess I hadn't really thought of the Noble so much as the Militia when I said that. But I guess we are all entitled to our own opinions on the way a game such as this should go. So no hard feelings David?

Alley_cat,

If you would like any help in the GL stuff I would be more than happy to help you out. I would have some learning to do, but then that is half of the fun!

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DO, OR DO NOT, THERE IS NO TRY - Yoda

[Immortal Wombat]

Dave, read the thread below this one, about Chris B's mod.
There are many different gaming experiences, and Wes' MedMod, though probably the most important for some people, is the wrong choice for others. I'm sure there will be mods a-plenty, and uninstalling on the basis of one mod you disagree with, is in my opinion a grave mistake.

Keep playing, or at least keep up with what others are doing to improve the game in other ways.

[alley_cat]

quote: If you would like any help in the GL stuff I would be more than happy to help you out

Sorry to spoil you fun Rhuarc, but the GL is already complete and any further bug fixes to it will be done by Wes (although I insisted that I will do it). Maybe Wes will give me some other job as I specifically told him I want one, and than you will be able to help me.
Stay in touch...

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Let people hear what they want to hear

[Rhuarc]

quote: Originally posted by alley_cat on 04-03-2001 02:56 PM Sorry to spoil you fun Rhuarc, but the GL is already complete and any further bug fixes to it will be done by Wes (although I insisted that I will do it). Maybe Wes will give me some other job as I specifically told him I want one, and than you will be able to help me. Stay in touch...

That would be great. Just let me know. Wes, the same goes for you, if you ever need any grunt work done I would more than glad to help you out!



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DO, OR DO NOT, THERE IS NO TRY - Yoda

[Rhuarc]

quote: Originally posted by alley_cat on 04-03-2001 02:56 PM Sorry to spoil you fun Rhuarc, but the GL is already complete and any further bug fixes to it will be done by Wes (although I insisted that I will do it). Maybe Wes will give me some other job as I specifically told him I want one, and than you will be able to help me. Stay in touch...

That would be great. Just let me know. Wes, the same goes for you, if you ever need any grunt work done I would more than glad to help you out!



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DO, OR DO NOT, THERE IS NO TRY - Yoda

[WesW]

Ok, I am finally getting back here, along with everyone else it seems. A few things from earlier posts:
Some of you are confusing gold and commerce. The post that jonnywalker made was mostly correct if you substitute the word "commerce" for "gold". Unit upkeep comes out of production, not gold or commerce, so his theory was wrong about the governments. I looked over the stats for Communism and Virt-dem, and the only thing I can find to account for the drop in science is wages. Wages are 3 under Communism, and 7 under VD, so you lose 4 commerce for every pop you have, which can be several hundred in the late game.
Btw, I have totally re-done the government GL, so that you see actual numbers for the governments instead of "low", "high", etc. There are more categories shown, and the numbers you see are for the most important stats, too.
The GL at this point is mostly done. I am waiting on some gameplay and historical files from Charles, but the original game items all have the correct requirements and stats listed. Things like terrain, tile improvements and advances are completely done. This makes it much easier to keep up with things. I hated having to look things up in the xls too, but it's all you have in the beginning. There is still a lot of new commentary in the xls that you need to read, and the advances chart will always be critical.

I still see that half the things posted here that have people confused are explained in the various readmes. At least consult them before spending time posting here. It will save you time and effort.

I have already removed the old mech. inf. sprite. It was a sprite of an early tank, and was not similar to any true troop-carrying vehicle. I also checked out the WWII sprites mentioned for the Paladin, and they just look too old for the Information age unit. We really need someone with graphics expertise to step up and make a couple of units, since Morgoth has been bogged down with work. I need a couple of units that I know he will not be able to get to before we are ready to go public, and I will not hold up the public release because of an inappropriate unit among the 150 or so in the game.

Just to address David "Warmonger" Murray, it is very easy to take things out of the mod- it's getting them in that is a b1tch. I would encourage people to make their own variations of the mod once it goes public. The more experimenting people do, the better the game will become.

Be careful what you wish for as far as the GL. It has a very steep learning curve, as Alley Cat has found out. Those of you who have not delved into the innards of the mod probably don't realize how many *thousands* of lines of code have been changed or made from scratch. There are probably a couple of thousand in the units text alone. All of this stuff has to be tied together, and much of it shows up in the game through the GL.
The work Charles (Diodorus Sicilis) has made for the gameplay and historical files would take an hour to read. It is outstanding work, btw, for those of you at all interested in history, and I doubt few civers are uninterested in history. I said that the Medpack I was worth downloading just for the historical gls John LaMaitre made, and Charles' work is at least as good. One thing I may do before the public release is make a short readme on the creators, so that you can all see the quality of the people who have contributed to the mod.

I am going to wait until I hear from Locutus regarding debugging the militia code before deciding when to post the next update. When I do, I will start another thread (I can't believe how fast this one has grown in the last week). I am still waiting for things to come in from most everyone helping out on the mod, but we are finishing up in most cases, and then it will be play-testing to check for bugs and enhance gameflow and AI behavior.

[joseph1944]

I need help. I'm in the year 1290AD. Every time I touch the build manager button the game crash w/unable to find the file UPUP 117L. The message will stay up for more than 3 to 4 times and then most of the time crash w/CTP 2 caused an invalid page fault in module CTP2.exe at 0187:00608899 plus 0187:00442707. Once in-a-while it will aloud me to continual the game. I'm using the March 27 upgrade.

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[Rhuarc]

Nevermind, sorry to bug you guys, I found the spreadsheets, they are a lot of help. Thanks.

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DO, OR DO NOT, THERE IS NO TRY - Yoda

[janilxx]

My opinions:

Someone said that noble is available too early. I think he might be right. Now there is only few turns to play without nobles and in that time you usually don't even see other players.

And about the AIs' love all AIs I discussed earlier. I just want to say that the situation where AI either loves other AI or hates him is not a good situation. There have to be other possible situations too like AI is neutral against other AI etc.

And I last said that establish embassy sound comes allways two times. I am not sure anymore I have some problems with my soundcard(sometimes when I start up my computer soundcard is not working at all) and that two time sound bug might be only my(or my soundcard's) problem .

-Jani