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  • New Ancient Mod in the works

    OK, here goes...
    (Don't know if I am going to regret this or not.)

    As it has been hinted at on the Sprite thread, I am currently working on an Ancient Age Mod. This mod is intended to be eventually used as a foundation for Ancient Scenarios, if anyone is interested in using it that way. I am also structuring this mod as playable in a random single-game setup. As it falls now, the science cost of the Advances, up to the Age of Reason, are approximately the same as the cost of the Advances up to Mid-Genetic in a default game.

    Currently, the Tech Tree is pretty well established up to the beginning of the Dark Ages. There are are few things that I want to tweak in terms of the Tech Tree up to that point (mostly in terms of historical order), but from a playability standpoint, I believe it is ready to go for test purposes. I would like to add some more post-Dark Ages Advances though and flesh out that era more.

    To give you an idea, what is happening, I have added 38 additional Advances up to the Dark ages. From a playability standpoint, the Ancient Age will take you to the Mid - Modern Age it terms of turns. It is eventually my intent for the Medieval/Renassaince Advances to take you to the end of a normal game.

    I have also added 14 Ancient Age military units, 3 Ancient stealth units, 13 City Improvements and 8 Wonders in addition to what is already in place (the exception is the Wonders, some which have been either removed or renamed)

    This will be a rather eurocentric Mod too. The Tech tree is built around what was happening in Europe and the Middle East from a historical standpoint.

    I have also been adding the various tweaks that have been posted onsite for things such as Happiness, AI production and attack capabilities too.

    Concernng units, it was my goal to have a vey gradual transition from unit to unit in terms of capabilities. This, I hope, will make combat a little tougher. I used up just about every sprite available for that time period too. I followed the following order in terms of availability, and there is generally some overlap.

    Defensive
    Offensive
    Ranged
    Flanker
    Ranged/Bombard
    Elite

    I also hope this will work with the AI Frenzy/Diplomod, but really haven't extensively tested this yet, as I have been more concerned about entering the data, and making sure the game doesn't crash. (though I have an early version of the Frenzy Mod on my default setup) Does anyone know if I need to have that as part of the Scenario pack, or does the Mod read that slic file, since I do not have a special slic file for the Mod?

    Initially the ideas I had floating around in my head were going to be implemented once the final MedMod came out for my personal use (at least in terms of concentrating on only the Ancient Age), but since one of my goals was to greatly extend the playtime of the Ancient Age, I decided to start building my own tech tree and unit lists, and it grew from that point.

    I hope to be able to send an Alpha test to OmniGod tomorrow to post and for players to try. This is, however, a work in process. I do need to see how it plays, and more importantly, how it balances out. There are so many variables to take into account, and trying to accomplish one thing often will throw something else out of whack. And if anyone has followed what Wes and others have done with MedMod, they will have a greater understanding of those issues.

    Finally, I am open to suggestions as to what needs to be fixed - this is why I will be posting the Mod at this point in time. I have run the game several times through the cheat mode for 150 turns or so without a problem, but in a game, there are so many events that can occur that can cause a crash - and those events often do not happen in every game.

    If you playtest, I ask you to do the following
    - Keep an eye on Gold, Pollution and Unhappiness. I especially want the game to take Unhappiness and make it a bigger issue for the player.
    - Keep an eye on Combat inbalances, and tell me if there is a unit you end up favoring to the virtual exclusion of others.
    - Do additional City Improvements need to be added?
    - Follow the timeline and see if it coincides with what is occuring in the game.
    - Make suggestions regarding how to flesh out the Medieval Age in terms of Advances.

    There will be a Tech Tree and Units chart in the readme file to evaluate, but it requires Adobe Acrobat Reader to open.
    <font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by hexagonian (edited January 31, 2001).]</font>
    Yes, let's be optimistic until we have reason to be otherwise...No, let's be pessimistic until we are forced to do otherwise...Maybe, let's be balanced until we are convinced to do otherwise. -- DrSpike, Skanky Burns, Shogun Gunner
    ...aisdhieort...dticcok...

  • #2
    Im most interested in the units. Waht are they?? Also, it is an ancient age mod. How far will you be allowed to advance
    "It is ridiculous claiming that video games influence children. For instance, if Pac-Man affected kids born in the 80's we should by now have a bunch of teenagers who run around in darkened rooms and eat pills while listening to monotonous electronic music."

    Comment


    • #3
      Hexa, I'll have a go for you. I always run the diplo mod now (the AI is too stupid without it) so I can evaluate how it goes with the mod (and if any tweaking of either is needed).

      ------------------
      Author of Diplomod. The mod to fix diplomacy.

      Rommell to a sub-commander outside Tobruk: "Those Australians are in there somewhere. But where? Let's advance and wait till they shoot, then shoot back."

      Comment


      • #4
        The mod has been sent to Rick for posting.

        Here is the unit list as it stands now.

        Land Units
        -----------
        Spearman (D)
        Warrior (O)
        Slinger (R)
        Javelin Cavalry (F)
        Chariot (E)

        Hoplite (D)
        Phalanx (O)
        Archer (R)
        Mounted Archer (R)
        War Elephant (E)
        Belfroi (R/B) - This will be the Siege Tower if I can figure out the bonus for attacking cities
        Horseman (F)

        Legion (D)
        Centurion (O/E)
        Comp. Bowman (R)
        Catapult (R/B)
        Cataphract (F)

        Man at Arms (D)
        Pikeman (O)
        Crossbow (R)
        Knight (E/F)
        Trebuchat (R/B)

        Arquebusier (D/R)
        Infantryman (O/R)
        Cannon (R/B)
        Cavalry (F)

        Sea
        ---
        Coracle (D) (t2)
        Trieme (O) (t2)
        Greek Fire Trieme (R)
        War Galley (F)
        Longship (F/R) (t3)
        Carrack (t5)
        Galleon (t4)
        Ship of the Line (t3)

        Special
        -------
        Nomad - early settler unit - obsolete when settler comes up
        Caravan
        Slaver
        Diplomat
        Prophet
        Spy
        Settler - increased cost to build over the nomad
        Cleric
        Abolitionist
        Revolutionary

        Chris and Dale
        I will email copies of the Tech Tree and Units list to you to look at. You need Adobe Acrobat Reader.

        The timeline is set up for 900 turns but can be extended in one of the files (I believe it is const.txt, but don't hold me to that, as I do not have the files in front of me) The existing tech tree is still in place post- Renassaince. All you will need to do is adjust the cost of advances to a more reasonable level. I added techs and adjusted cost to stretch the game out.
        [This message has been edited by hexagonian (edited February 01, 2001).]
        Yes, let's be optimistic until we have reason to be otherwise...No, let's be pessimistic until we are forced to do otherwise...Maybe, let's be balanced until we are convinced to do otherwise. -- DrSpike, Skanky Burns, Shogun Gunner
        ...aisdhieort...dticcok...

        Comment


        • #5
          Rich has relaunched his King Arthur site and my mod is partially up there. The mod does not have all the pictures and sprites though so it will not work. We are working on the problem now though.

          I have also set up a temporary place to download everything - its at
          http://www.mydocsonline.com

          login is hexagonia
          password is hextapul

          The file is broken into 6 Zips -
          1 Text Zip
          2 Pictures Zips
          3 Sprite Zips

          Simply unzip the Txt zip in the Scenarios folder and unzip the pictures in the scen/default/graphics/pictures folder and the sprites into the scen/default/graphics/sprites folder. There is a readme file too.

          And input is welcomed, especially on stuff after the Dark Ages.


          [This message has been edited by hexagonian (edited February 01, 2001).]
          Yes, let's be optimistic until we have reason to be otherwise...No, let's be pessimistic until we are forced to do otherwise...Maybe, let's be balanced until we are convinced to do otherwise. -- DrSpike, Skanky Burns, Shogun Gunner
          ...aisdhieort...dticcok...

          Comment


          • #6
            Text file error in the Unitcon Text file causes crash

            ICON_IMPROVE_ZIGGURAT { FirstFrame "UPIP200L.TGA" Movie "NULL" Gameplay "IMPROVE_ZIGGURAT_GAMEPLAY" Historical "IMPROVE_ZIGGURAT_HISTORICAL" Prereq "IMPROVE_ZIGGURAT_PREREQ" Vari "IMPROVE_ZIGGURAT_STATISTICS" Icon "UPIP200L.TGA" LargeIcon "NULL" SmallIcon "NULL" StatText "IMPROVE_ZIGGURAT_STATISTICS" }

            The last TGA entries originally read 'UPVP200L.TGA'

            it should read

            'UPIP200L.TGA'

            Barbarians on the highest setting is a killer. They are everywhere. This will have to be tweaked down a touch, as they are taking out civs.
            [This message has been edited by hexagonian (edited February 01, 2001).]
            Yes, let's be optimistic until we have reason to be otherwise...No, let's be pessimistic until we are forced to do otherwise...Maybe, let's be balanced until we are convinced to do otherwise. -- DrSpike, Skanky Burns, Shogun Gunner
            ...aisdhieort...dticcok...

            Comment


            • #7
              Okay posted in 2 files on the Court and in 1 huge file in the db.

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks Rich.

                To all,

                Please remember that this is a work in process. As such I will be posting updates on this from time to time. I will post updates at
                http://www.mydocsonline.com

                login is hexagonia
                password is hextapul

                in a folder entitled updates.

                And once again, any input concerning crashes, bugs or imbalances is appreciated.
                Yes, let's be optimistic until we have reason to be otherwise...No, let's be pessimistic until we are forced to do otherwise...Maybe, let's be balanced until we are convinced to do otherwise. -- DrSpike, Skanky Burns, Shogun Gunner
                ...aisdhieort...dticcok...

                Comment


                • #9
                  No!

                  centurion was part of a legion. don't have it as a separate unit

                  Britannica.com says this:

                  "the principal professional officer in the armies of ancient Rome and its empire. The centurion was the commander of a centuria, which was the smallest unit of a Roman legion. A legion was nominally composed of 6,000 soldiers, and each legion was divided up into 10 cohorts, with each cohort containing 6 centuria. The centurion thus nominally commanded about 100 men, and there were 60 centurions in a legion. "

                  similar siutation with a hoplite and phalanx. A phalanx is a way of fighting. A hoplite is the type of soldier used by Greece in a phalanx. So a hoplite unit is fine but I don't think you should have a phalanx AS WELL.

                  "During the 7th century BC the Greek city-states adopted a phalanx eight men deep. The Greek hoplite, the heavy-armed infantryman who manned the phalanx, was equipped with a round shield, a heavy corselet of leather and metal, greaves (shin armour), an 8-foot pike for thrusting, and a 2-foot double-edged sword. Since the phalanx held in solid ranks and was divided only into the centre and wings, there was generally little need for an officer corps; the whole line advanced in step to the sound of the flute. Such a formation encouraged cohesion among advancing troops and presented a frightening spectacle to the enemy, but it was difficult to maneuver and, if penetrated by enemy formations, became little more than a mob."

                  Do not be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Point taken...

                    I then need a designation for a comperable infantry type unit that would be an upgrade for a legion, that will be used by a Dictorship government. My thought was, as Rome would give the control of the government to a single man during times of military distress, I wanted to have a military unit available to that government, similar to the Fascist/Fascism setup.

                    Same with the phalanx/hoplite setup. My starting principle was to have a starting defensive unit in each grouping, and as the phalanx was a military tactic (hence the Barracks prereq), this was the solution I came up with, to come up with a more advanced infantry-type unit for that period in the game. It's not so much that I am presenting a single unit so much as I am also presenting concepts of tactics and leadership within the upgraded units.

                    And if you can come up with actual designations for the units, I would be willing to use them. Making the name changes is not too hard.

                    Same with the placement of improvements on the tech tree. Farms come available a little later in the game. It can be safely argued that farming has been around for a long time before it comes up on my tech tree, but I worked on the principle that if you settle a city, the food that you get from your tiles is a result of farming anyhow - but once you get water lifts, you now have the ability to increase the production on your tiles. The same arguement can be made with Archery. Archery has been available for a long time - incorporating slingers and archers at about the same time might be historically accurate, but might not serve a gameplay purpose. As much as I would like to keep it historically accurate, all units have to have a defined purpose in the game. Its no good if the unit is in the game but is never used, because a very similar unit comes available soon after that trumps it.

                    Part of the problem too is since the timeframe has been expanded for the Ancient Age, I need to add additional units to keep the game interesting.

                    The Greek Fire Trireme was an early spelling error in the unit spec sheet, which has been corrected in the current text gamefiles. In the game, the designation is Fire Trireme too. This is also something that also needs to be addressed, as Greek Fire was discovered in the Early Medieval Ages (according to Encarta, at least)

                    One other area on the Ancient Tech tree that I want to tighten up is the Masonry spot on the tree. I would like to come up with another designation for that spot, as Masonry is the same as Brick Making.

                    One final note in playtesting last night. The slinger unit is not acting as a ranged unit in battle. This is odd, because I used the archer text for that unit - only replacing the names and the range factor. I am also getting some unexpected results with the spearman/warrior units in battle. All three of these units have some combat factors of 5 instead of 10, which is what the weakest unit of the default game uses. So I have to take a closer look at this.

                    Keep the input coming

                    [This message has been edited by hexagonian (edited February 02, 2001).]
                    [This message has been edited by hexagonian (edited February 02, 2001).]
                    Yes, let's be optimistic until we have reason to be otherwise...No, let's be pessimistic until we are forced to do otherwise...Maybe, let's be balanced until we are convinced to do otherwise. -- DrSpike, Skanky Burns, Shogun Gunner
                    ...aisdhieort...dticcok...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      quote:


                      Trieme (O) (t2)
                      Greek Fire Trieme (R)



                      the hard to spell Trireme.
                      I've heard a few pronounciations of this one too.

                      Greek Fire Trireme might sound a bit odd if it's built by someone other than the greeks.
                      Do not be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Update 1.02 at
                        http://www.mydocsonline.com

                        login is hexagonia
                        password is hextapul

                        I had discovered that ranged units need to have a minimum range setting of 15, so I had to reformat all of my settings for units.

                        I also was getting some unusual battles with units that had a setting at 5. So the settings are now stating at 10 - had to bump up all the numbers too.

                        A block on purchasing Legions and the old Centurion and Legion unit has also been removed. The text was picked up from Alexander scenario and I didn't realize the block was there.

                        I replaced the Trireme with a Bireme, which was a Phoenician 2-oarbanked precurser to the Trireme. I also replaced the Fire Trireme with a Trireme, since greek fire was not discovered until the 7th century AD.

                        Replaced the Centurion with Palantini, which was the elite Legion guard of the Emperor.

                        Barb settings are very good now with some tweaks to Risks.txt and the build priority list. Playing on setting below raging Hordes and they are a constant irritant. Raging Hordes are set even higher too.

                        Maintaining happiness is a challenge now too.

                        Yes, let's be optimistic until we have reason to be otherwise...No, let's be pessimistic until we are forced to do otherwise...Maybe, let's be balanced until we are convinced to do otherwise. -- DrSpike, Skanky Burns, Shogun Gunner
                        ...aisdhieort...dticcok...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Ancient Nomenclature...
                          The Roman military unit was the Legio, usually changed to Legion in English. Under the Empire, at least, the 'official' elite unit was the Praetorian Guard or Praetorians. Under the late Empire the Scholari were the Guard units of early Byzantium, but now we're getting obscure and the term will probably mean nothing to most people.
                          The Classical Greek army fought in a Phalanx, which meant either the entire army or more specifically the heavily armed and armored foot, composed initially of Hoplites (from their large round shield, the Hoplon). Later, after the Peloponesian War, the phalanx got lighter, was composed of Peltasts with an elongated shield called a Pelta or Theuros, but still tight-packed with long spears. The Macedonian phalanx, actually pikemen, was the Pezheteroi, or Foot Companions (of the King, Philip or Alexander). Elite units could be the Sacred Band (Theban Hoplites) or the Hypaspists (of Alexander)
                          Ancient Warships. Earliest were the Pentekonters or '50-oared ships' (25 to a side) which date back to the "hollow ships' of Homer (9-10 century BC). These were comparable to the Phoenic Bireme of 8th century BC, but both were 'way outclassed by the Trieres or Trireme, which was faster and the first known ship to use ram tactics extensively instead of just carrying troops to board the enemy. Successor to the Trireme were the Cataphractii or 'roofed ships', heavier Quadriremes, Quinqueremes, Heptiremes, etc with heavier construction, a lot more marines, and occasionally, light catapults and ballistae. These comprised the fleets of Alexander's Successors, Carthage, and Rome (Republic)
                          The Greek Fire Trireme, if used, should be called the Dromon, or 'runner' - the Byzantine ships that carried the Greek Fire Projectors. First recorded use of Greek Fire was in 673 AD, it was invented by one Kallinikos HOWEVER a Rhodian admiral used some kind of incendiary mixture much earlier, in late Roman Republic times. Common and peculiarly Rhodian ship was the Triemiola, a modified Trireme that also used sails and (normally) board and storm tactics as well as ramming.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            i think were getting into too much detail........Ill wait to D/L this mod till the Reviews come in

                            Besides last time i downloaded an ALpha i found myself Fixing the Alpha........


                            Looks good tho and 3 cheers for the creator


                            --------------------
                            'enslave the enemy'

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hexagonian,
                              Just finished downloading your mod. I haven't started it yet, but from the files it looks very good. A few quibbles though... First, I find it very strange that there's a tech called Christianity, and that its the only religion in the game. I understand that you're taking a very West-centric approach, but it still seems a little wierd to me that your world has only one religion. No Islam even, which came to control most of the Mediterranean, including Spain, East Europe up to Vienna, etc... Personally, I'd have allowed multiple paths (hopefully exclusive of each other), or called Christianity the more generic Monotheism.

                              Second thing: I also find it wierd that the tech tree has everything funneled through the one Dark Ages tech. Wierd because a) why would anyone want and "research" the Dark Ages, and b) it breaks all the logical connections between techs around that time, like Christianity leading to Theology or whatever.

                              Anyways, just my 2 cents, hope you don't mind.

                              Also, if you have the "raw" graphics for the tech pictures that you've done yourself, please send them to me. By raw, I mean before you put the backgrounds on, hopefully while they're still in layers. That way, I can add them to the graphics files I've got, and it will be easy for people to get them all in one location.

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