Introducing the Medieval Pack II v1.0 Alpha

[overflow]

Wes

Is it your intention to not let Nets and Fisheries be built on KELP? I added it back.

Thanks for all the work.

[overflow]

ooops! sorry for the multiple postings

[Thomas Rahm]

Wes,

I just noted the same behaviour as yesterday:
year 2000 bc: 4 out of 5 opponents didnt go very much for exploration but kept staying within their first city radius.
Cities: 1, size: 3, buildings: gran, shrine, production: settler
The 5th civ had 3 cities, no impr, many mil units out for explo.
However, to pass you the requested info pls tell me how to determine the personality setting of AI. I didnt find anything about that.

Just got a slic error:
"In object MM2 TryMilitia, variables MM2_TryMilitia#mploc and 'noname' are different types.

You might understand that, I dont.

Thomas

[Thomas Rahm]

And a third one

Wes,

800 AD: Still no trading posts
I checked with cheat mode and guess what tile improvement arrives with Paper currency. BTW if this was what you had in mind its okay, as I got used to live without them for a long time. (Its just that uncomfortable feeling that my favorite Modmaker is testing my patience.

My five opponents have now 12,12,11,10,8 cities,
3 have gone to monarchy, they make good use of tile improvements (apart from trading posts as they have none available ), defenses are strong and when my neighbour reached the limit of expansion, he decided, not to build more cities but to make use of mine instead.

BTW Just came across the smilies legend .....

Thomas

[Pintello]

Hi Thomas,

I am I to understand from your last post that the AI actually attacked you? If so, who was it, what was his personality type, and how well did he carry off his attack? Did he use stacks? If he did, were they well balanced stacks? What units were in those stacks? Did he use multiple stacks, or just one big one? Did he follow any victories up with additional attacks? Did the AI do a good job of defending any cities of yours that he was able to conquer?

I may be mistaken, but somebody, I think it was you, asked about how to find out an AI's personality type, so here is how. To find out an AI's personality type go to the Diplomacy menu and check intellegence on the active AI. Intellegence is one of the buttons along the bottom of the diplomacy window. The personallity type of the AI will be listed in the lines of text just above the diplomacy tabs.

I look forward to details on how well the AI attacked you.

Timothy Pintello

[Thomas Rahm]

Hi Tim,

Thanks for the hint.
It has been the Scots, the diplo menu reads Populist Zealot. Below a note was placed: Your trade embargo angered them.

I dont know anything about a trade embargo, we had no diplo contact before. He sent two or three single hoplites through my empire, so I asked him to leave (I think I asked him rather straight forward). Several turns later he gathered those three hoplites which were still around and brought in another stack of 5 (2 other hoplites and three warriors). He went straight for my capital (defended by three units and the militia) and had no problems to take it. Several turns later (10 or so I had 5 units ready for counter attack but his remaining 6 units still were in the city, so I had to forget about the town. During the following turns I luckily ran into the above mentioned slic error, which btw didnt re-appaer after installing everything again.

In another game a 5-stack of barbarians took over one of my cities as well. We might be facing hard times with this mod.
Hope this answers your questions, I will continue to post my experiences here, so feel free to ask for any other details.

Thomas

[Thomas Rahm]

Can anybody give me a hint how I can check the personality type of the AI opponents.

Thanks

Thomas

[WesW]

UPDATE ALERT: New advances chart posted.

This chart also contains a new version of the Med charts spreadsheet, which contains the new city improvement setup.

Overflow, the Terrain readme was wrong. I allow Drilling Platforms to be on Kelp, and food improvements to be on Reefs. I figured it would be hard to drag nets through a kelp bed (it also spreads out the improvements).

Btw, guys, if you make multiple posts, or want to post again soon after making a post, you can edit your previous post to make an apology or add your further thoughts.

Thomas, are you sure you are using the Jan. 16th text files? Thanks for the feedback, btw.

Here is the text from a reply of mine to a letter Harlan sent me. I included in my reply all of the major changes I have made in the last couple of days, based upon my play-testing experiences and the recent general discussions on the forums.
Basically, my play-testing revealed that cities were growing too slowly, and that the 1-per-pop system of improvements cost was too high. I have therefore gone to a new system using the fact that building are destroyed when they become obsolete.

> Wes,
> I'm continuing to work on this. I've gotten to the end of the Computer Age, but I've run into some troubles there. I've noticed the complete lack of a Diamond Age. It seems like you've cut this off cos you can't get it to fit on one page. I think there are more important things to consider than page formatting. Anyways, you should be able to fit more on one page in the first place. For instance, change the paper size from legal to letter, and you should be set to have a bunch more columns if you want.
> Given that we're going to give names to the future techs (or even if we don't, they'll need links) the Diamond age is gonna have to fit sooner or later, so might as well make the chart able to handle that now.

Reply: I don't know what you mean by going from legal to letter. The page is already in letter size, printing out on landscape orientation. I doubt everyone is going to have legal-size paper lying around just so they can print out a scenario tech chart, and I do want it able to be printed out. As the chart is now, with all the arrows in, you would have to manually re-do every single one of them to get another more rows in, and it's not worth that to me at this point.
I do agree that most of the last row of Computer age techs seem out of place, but about all you can do is say that this row is shared by the Computer and Genetic ages. Keeping an orderly unit progression is key to me, and if you break this up just to fine-tune that ages, a lot of people are going to be emailing me asking what is going on, and are they missing something. Once we get into play-testing, and see how many turns need to be in each age, this timelime may go out the window anyway.
>
> Because of this lack of space, it seems you've stuffed too much into the Computer and Genetics ages. I would recommend putting at least Ultra Pressure Machinery, Neural Interface and Gene Therapy into the Genetic age, probably High Pressure Construction too. Do you really think for instance we'll have a Kraken in the next 40 years? Anyways, it seems things are moving too fast at this time anyways, there needs to be a bit of a breather. You've been very concerned about spacing when it comes to air units, putting the stealth units into the far future, but you haven't done the same with naval units. And Gene Therapy needs to be one of the triggers to enter the Genetic age, what with Genetics itself already safely within the Computer age.

Reply: I think that I have tried to space out naval units just as I have air units. Take a look at the Med charts. I am doing the best I can with the sprites I have.
I wanted you guys to see the charts anyway, since I have went back and totally changed the city improvements part of the game, based upon my observations play-testing the last couple of days. I decided to go with a staggered obsolescence among buildings of most types. Buildings of the same color within a category obsolete one another as you go down the list (the Brokerage obsoletes the Bazaar, for example). My main gripe regarding the standard setup was that primitive buildings like the Bazaar, with 1 upkeep, continued to give their advantages throughout the game, regardless of the size of the city. This new arrangement addresses that, without the diadvantages of the 1 per pop theory I tried before.
I also re-worked the defense improvements. The Bastion obsoletes both the City Walls and Castle, while preventing slavery 100% of the time, and giving the offensive and conversion advantages of the Castle.
With the way happiness works, I decided to give the original effects back to Television and the Movie Palace.
And, I changed the Arena to the Stadium, available with Global Economics, to spread out the happiness improvements.
I reduced the original max city size from 18 to 10, and re-worked the overcrowding improvements so that you will need each one for your largest cities as soon as it becomes available, hopefully.
Cities seemed to grow too slowly in my games, so I increased the effect of the Granary and Food Silo. I also generally increased the effect of buildings from 20 to 30 percent, now that city sizes are smaller than they were originally. Also, what about re-naming the Food Silo to Meatpacking Plant, since Granaries are still in use throughout the game?
I moved Urban Planning to the Industrial Age, so that the Urban Planner is available earlier. Cities founded by Planners and Sea Engineers start at size 3 and with Granaries, Aqueducts, Courthouses, Shrines and Theatres already in them. Sea Cities already grow at twice the rate of land cities, I think, so that part of the game should be more important now.

Wes

[Pintello]

Hi Tom and Wes,

Seems that the AI really is doing better on the attack. Good job Wes.

I was using the Alpha Mod last night and I noticed something. Once the Harbor Improvement becomes available, the Granary Improvement disappears from the build queues. Also, all the Granaries I had built up to that point also disappear. The Granaries disappear from the Inventory List in the City Manager Screen. I don't know if they are sold or just disappear though, because I received no message about it one way or the other. Wes, is this an affect you are trying for, or did something not work just right?

Regards,

Timothy Pintello

[wheathin]

Wes, could you include both Arena and Stadium? The stadium would be a more modern version, available after the Arena is obsolete. To keep the Arena from being too widely used, you could give it a very high upkeep cost (the cost of so many wild animals, for example).

Totally unrelated idea - have you considered different penalties for slider unhappiness based on government type? I.e., Fascists might incur only a -4 penalty for each notch, while democracies would face a -5 or -6, allowing some governments to oppress their citizens more easily than others.

[GreatDane]

quote: Originally posted by Pintello on 01-17-2001 08:59 AM Once the Harbor Improvement becomes available, the Granary Improvement disappears from the build queues.

I also noticed this in my game, very odd. I checked the buildings.txt file and it seemed ok.

GreatDane

[Thomas Rahm]

Quote:
"Thomas, are you sure you are using the Jan. 16th text files? Thanks for the feedback, btw."

Wes,

I downloaded the textfile 14 Jan from your homepage after you announced the new update (that with the pests in the code).
Is there a 16 jan textfile at another location?
Is it correct to download the latest version and to unzip it over the old one in the scenario folder of ctp2?
I am still using the domestic scen. Is that what I should do?

I just noted that in the med mod folder I have a default dir with gamedata, aidata etc. Within that gamedata folder there is a tileimp.txt( 13.01.2001) which is different from that in the same subfolder within the scen 0001 directory (which I believe is the domestic alfa ? This tileimp.txt is of 25.12.) I replaced the old file with the new one and now have trade posts available.
As I am obviously the only one with that problem, that bad feeling is still present, though.

I would be greatful for brief instructions about the critical phase between booting the computer and playing the proper mod version.

Thomas

[This message has been edited by Thomas Rahm (edited January 17, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Thomas Rahm (edited January 17, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Thomas Rahm (edited January 17, 2001).]

[Ganja]

WES...

I'd like to know if there is a text update for the 16th too, I downloaded the one off your site but most files in the zip are dated the 14th or before with one exception that is dated the 15th.

[Alatriste]

First I want to say congratulation for this mos to the makers.

Second I´m translating this mod to "spanish version" , if someone want the spanish mod only send an email.

(excuses for my English)

[Locutus]

On the actual site the text says that the last update was on Jan 14, but in fact, when I look at the files I can tell they are newer, so Wes simply forgot to update the name of the link. Just download the files again and you'll have the latest, working, version that among other things fixes the SLIC bug Thomas had.