1 vs 1 multiplayer CTP games

[The_Reverend]

I had this same problem with 1 vs 1 multiplayer games on Civ2:MGE. It seems that in every 1 vs 1 game I've played, one human player, due to random circumstance, gets a better start than the other the other, and is ahead for the rest of the game, usually by a very large margin.

Even though both players are equally skilled at the game, the other human player has no chance at making a come back.

The random factors at the start of the game are:

1. The terrain near your first settler(s) (greatly affects how fast your first few cities grow).

2. Your proximity to hostile enemies.

3. How much luck you have with goodie huts.

I know the real world isn't fair, and some civs do just have better luck than others, but for a game, it's nicer when it's a question of skill rather than a toin coss.

When you've got more than 2 human players, things can even out a bit if the less powerful band together against the more powerful civ(s). But still, being ahead in the PowerGraph doesn't seem like so much a testament to a player's skill as it is a sign of how good his start-of-game factors were.

I've found that taking out Stonehenge from the game can keep the more powerful player from getting WAY higher ahead, but it still doesn't solve the problem.

Any thoughts?

[Tolls]

Take out goodie huts.
They really shouldn't be in MP.
There's enough luck as it is without them.

[kmj]

I definitely agree on getting rid of goody huts. I've played about 4 or 5 games and every time, 1 player will find theocracy or 1 will find a knight( who, of course, with his increased movement rate goes around and finds another two or three huts with knights in them).

I am very interested in the multiplayer side of the game (even though I've had the worst luck), and I hope the barreness of this forum is only due to the newness of the game.

[tfs99]

Hey CtPers,

I hope this forum picks up as well. I haven't bought CtP yet (although I have come close). I am looking forward to the demo to "tip the scales". And I'm also waiting to see the "buzz" on the first patch.

But if there is not much multi-player activity, I might just hold off even longer until it heats up some. It's the multiplayer that really gets me excited about a game. And I like to make maps specially suited for multi-player, but the map editor is not done yet! I suppose I'll just have to keep biding my time with respect to CtP.

Good luck guys! ... Ted S.

[mr cairo]

Hey, what's this? A thread without disagreement? Who'd have thought?

Do you guys know just what files count toward 'same versionness'? Hmmm... awkward... what I mean is... what files can we change without throwing off MP compatibility. I've added/changed some civs, for instance. Would that matter? I would think so (consider what would happen if the missing civ was in the game), but you never know.

If anyone wants to play, I know of no better place to suggest times, or ask for/offer maps than here. Except maybe Powerleague when it comes online.

All e-mailed requests for games gladly considered.

Regards,

[mr cairo]

Ted:

The beta map editor is a little cumbersome, yes. But the patch should improve it.

Why wait for the demo? Come on! Take the leap o' faith! It's a great game. (And this is from a non-CIV II fan.) Make us some maps, Ted, and we'll let you play in our back yard.

ttfn

[tfs99]

>>>>> mr cairo

Thanks for pointing out the beta editor. I only stop into the CtP forums every now and then. And I guess I missed the threads about it.

However, a search of the UBB led to further enlightenment.

I wish I had time for all the games I have already bought. I'll get to CtP eventually. But I'd rather have a smooth ride from the word "go". And I'm hoping the patch will smooth some rough edges and that that will be reflected by good reviews in the forums.

Ted S.

[mr cairo]

Reverend:

I couldn't agree more. Random maps are fine when you're playing the comp and are willing to 'roll the dice.' Indeed, a lack of a random map generator would have been cause for a justified uproar. But you're right--they're no good when you want to test your skill or otherwise have fun playing another person. There's just too much luck involved. To your list I would add (4) distribution of goods, and (5) landmass size (assuming opponents on different continents).

I don't want to lose because I started in the middle of the Sahara or on Iceland. And I don't want to apologize for a win that was unearned.

Fortunately, there is an obvious solution: play on pre-made maps. Problem: all players have to analyse it first, lest the creator have an advantage. Also, the map must still be balanced. I made a three continent map separated by lots of water and went to ridiculous extremes balancing it. Same number of goods (and same distribution), same number of cities fit, roughly equal terrain, NO goodie huts, etc. Not trivial.

The final hurdle for MP will be in getting people to agree on standards (fan mods, Activision alternatives), and take the time to communicate before playing, including sending maps back and forth. Seems like it will be hard with strangers. Sadly, I have only one friend with the game and he is somewhat slow to get his ass in gear.

Oh... one more thing. MP will require a significant time commitment. Might be frustrating to have people drop out or fail to resume games.

(Seems I diverged a bit from the topic. Not unusual. )

Regards,

[Tolls]

Look on the bright side, though...once there are some MP maps out there, as well as mod-packs that people might consider "standard" for MP, things will get a lot easier.
These things take time, and this game's only a few weeks old...

[The_Reverend]

Thanks for the replies.

Next time I play, I'll try turning off the goodie huts. Too bad, though. The little Easter Island monoliths and Stonhenges look so cool. Oh well. @8-)

Creating multiplayer maps seems like it would work, but that would sacrifice one of the coolest parts of the game, IMHO, which is discovery of the land and sea. I really like not knowing what's going to be out there, and being familiar with the map beforehand would ruin that. I guess that's why I don't like playing on the Earth map very often.

Or maybe it's just cause the Earth map sucks. @8-)

Anyhow, any further play-balancing tips or multiplayer experiences are appreciated.

-The Reverend