What Government is best for war?

[faded glory]

Well, I must admit this new poll option, rules

[TheBirdMan]

In Lungs Fast, Lung and Stavros clearly have advantage getting to facism first. Lung has nearly sweeped St. Jon out by now.

'Cause the rest (St. Jon, Paul and me) had no competing knowledge at the time, Lung attacked. Canons, musketeers etc. are no good when a facist wave comes in.

We got massproduction later (marines)- and we did get tankwarfare but Lung was first every time (because Lung got both the LE and the EL wonders!). We were - and still are - 5-6 turns behind.

IF - only if - one gets massproduction before any others "enemy" gets facism - making one able to defend (or attack) - then communism is the best for a very long time.

[faded glory]

I agree with everything you said birdman . Except that Facist's have a huge problem. They dont have any ranged attack..... So If I have a stack of 9 facists vs 5 musketeers and 4 cannon;s. The Facists in the back-row, cannot offer support, unlike the cannons. Communism production exceeds facism's bye .75 and exceeds theocracy bye .90, so if one wants to send hordes of troop's. There is a possiblility that person may win. Especially when Machine-guns arrive.

[blackice]

It depends on the game at hand but Communism kicks but for production toss in London's you have a very good early war machine.

[Swissy]

I find that you have to use a combination of governments. Communism is good for building up your production power and getting your navy built up strong. Then I switch to Fascism for the better attack and the fascist units. One also has to remember that the longer you stay in communism, the more likely you are to have revolution strike from out of the blue. This has happen to me a few times in multiplayer games, mostly online but once in a pbem game.

When it comes right down to it, technocracy beats everything as the Plasmatica units are real tough to beat in a city with walls. Also, you can pump out fusion tanks and space fighters real fast.

[Lung]

Fascism, baby. All the way! Actually, only for the early modern age, but that's what you're asking isn't it?

Max is right, of course, but it does depend on the circumstances. However, the way i see it is that on Fascism, the lower production against Communism is balanced by the increased military, which seems to make a big difference one-on-one. If you can match communism's units, you will beat them.

The fascists lacking ranged attack is irrelevant, as it's comparable unit, the Marine, lacks it as well (i think). Fascists have superior firepower to Marines, but less movement, although their higher attack strength makes them superb infantry, and a killer against Musketeers. Fascists also have a spy defence bonus, which helps you to keep your secrets. Also, the reasonable science helps to keep those science improvements ticking over, while your pollution is manageable.

Overall, Fascism makes the better government. That said, Fascism doesn't work so well if you're not intending or expecting to go to war. As it was in Lung's FAST! pbem, i would have changed to communism instead of fascism, except that Max went to Theocracy instead, presumably to keep up his science. This ruled out communism for me, as i would lose my science advantage. The straw that broke the camel's back was that Max and Jon fuelled my paranoia, yet for some reason failed to prepare adequately for any Australian offensive?! Well, perhaps you did, Tweety, but Jon certainly didn't!

Gee, i'd love to have Technocracy, though

[Keygen]

Originally posted by Lung
Fascism, baby. All the way!

I think I know what avatar you are going to use when the ctp avatars will be available .


Besides strategy and the right use of your available resources (units, improvements, etc.) the most important issue of all, what everyone tries to maximize when he enters a war is production! Simply because with production you build military units and the highest production you have the fastest your units will enter service . What should I do with the fascists while I can have tanks or interceptors much faster than Fascism can?

[TheBirdMan]

The great difference in my eyes is, that communism itself do not give any good unit. Facism does. At least you also have to know about massproduction if/when changing to communism.

Oil-refing and steel is good, but not good enough. It do you no good, that you rule the waves if you cannot hold you cities. Same as suicide!

And yes Lung. You are completely right in both your guesses. I changed back to theocracy in a loony hope to catch up with your science, I partly had success, I mean we got massproduction and tankwarfare only a few turns too late. And I was prepared, scouts (diplomats, musketeers and phalanx far ahead of my cities) and watchtowers - and lots of canons stacked with no-ranged units waiting to bombard the slow facist when they were comming. Just ask Stavros.

Edit:

Special offer to all small dictators: Buy my roman unitstacks. Now also with marines and tanks

[Lung]

Originally posted by TheBirdMan

Oil-refing and steel is good, but not good enough. It do you no good, that you rule the waves if you cannot hold you cities. Same as suicide!

I think i cured Jon's hard-on for battleships

And yes Lung. You are completely right in both your guesses. I changed back to theocracy in a loony hope to catch up with your science,

Actually, i thought it was quite clever! I could have such a lead in science otherwise that you would be screwed. Then again, if you all went commie, i may have done the same

[jpww]

Isn't Democracy the best gov. type for war? Just ask George.

[drAgON1]

Commy rules baby!

[faded glory]

Lung, I know bird pointed this out already. But why does your avatar have a litttle hairy wang between his legs ?

[Lung]

Er, i think it's part of the loin-cloth, smart-arse Besides, Firaxis created it - the Lung ain't clever enough

[St Jon]

In my opinion there are only three worthwhile Governments in the entire Game, Theocracy>>Communism>>Corp Republic, for either War or Peace. Virtual Democracy looks good but is irrelevent as the Game is already won by the time you get it.

Fascism, as of itself, is a pretty dismal Government with very ordinary Production and a ludicrously low City Limit. The Fascist is an improvement over the Musketeer but is still reliant upon heavy weopon support if it is to overcome entrenched opposition.

One of, the many, deficiencies in CtP is that City Discontent is just too easily handled. It can basically be ignored at the low Difficulty levels and even at Deity does not hit hard enough. Nobody goes to War with 15 Units anyway so where is the huge plus that causes Activision to class Fascism as 'Excellent' in matters military? Even the lower time between Readiness' is largely nulified by the fact that everyone knows that the only reason for switching to Fascism is a desire for conflict and therefore have ample time for adjusting their own War Readiness.

To use 'Fast' as an example of the alleged wonderousness of Fascism is a red herring for War was only commenced after the discovery of Explosives and the production of Artillery Units. The important factor was 'London Exchange' which ensures a substantial Science Rate, regardless of Government, and when coupled with 'Edison's Lab' makes for a, generally, lethal combination.

Vive La Revolution!

[Solver]

OK, TheBirdMan has the point here, for sure.