Announcement

**quinns** · February 3, 2001, 18:19

Ratings updated.

Congratulations to Klair for taking over first place and setting an all time high rating for CTP PBEM!

That triple DUTCHEESE game results caused Klair to climb high and TheBirdMan to fall hard. Too bad Birdman. What goes up, must come down.

**King Thor** · February 3, 2001, 20:48

Woah.. the only woman in the Ratings chart and she has to be on top. ... Thank god I'm on her good side.

**TheBirdMan** · February 4, 2001, 01:13

We shall have Klair down again - or loose

Total war in DC now.

But why was the result tripled?

Edit: Don't answer, the game was rated backwards to turn 119?

Edit-edit: Turn 119 was my first turn in DC. The ratings send in t this checkmark would be for turn 109 upto and including 118, right?

By turn 137 or 138, I left the "dumboplace" to Frazer. I think Slamp reported me as last on all, also at turn 139, didn't he?
[This message has been edited by TheBirdMan (edited February 04, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by TheBirdMan (edited February 04, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by TheBirdMan (edited February 04, 2001).]

**Solver** · February 4, 2001, 08:13

What? How could TheBirdMan fall so much down? Which results caused that? I'm in schock, actually. Currently going to download the report in order to update the charts.

------------------
Solver - http://www.aok.20m.com

**TheBirdMan** · February 4, 2001, 08:19

Actually I am surprised too.

Quinns - could you send me a mail/excelsheet showing me the exact changes from each game from the last week?

I know that DC would make it hard for to keep in lead (last, last and secondlast) -
but I also had a first and a second place from two other games this week.

If this hit as hard as shown, I need to think more about actual being rated in Monkey 2

Now I can see that I should not have agreed to let me be rated here, as all I started with was to very small cities and armed with a few phalanx and a trireme while the others had tanks and warwalkers . Actual I was outnumbered on the powergraph with a factor 50 or more to the leader (Paul, dutch).

If I do, I know I would have to take my "penalty" for changing minds.

[This message has been edited by TheBirdMan (edited February 04, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by TheBirdMan (edited February 04, 2001).]

**TheBirdMan** · February 4, 2001, 09:23

Lung deathmatch 3 is a rated game too. Proposal from Demos, accept from me.

Agreed by Lung (gameowner) on the 22. january 2001 (post on the topic from him).

Starting turn 86

Playerlist:

TheBirdMan - romans
(Mobius - spanish) I have put Mobius on ( ) as I cannot find his accept of getting rated. But he might have answered Demos or Lung direct.
TheTrueDemosthenes - welsh.

Report for turn 89, played the 25. january 2001:

TheBirdman
(Mobius)
TheTrueDemosthenes.

**King Thor** · February 4, 2001, 11:27

BirdMan I think the reason you lost so many points is because 7 other players beat you in DC. I mean look at me, I was 17 or something, so due to the way the scoring system is, if I beat you, I take more of your points than someone who is in second place. I think you lost a whole bunch of points because my PG is ahead of yours in the game. I didn't move any spots up though because the otehr players in the game beat me.

**quinns** · February 4, 2001, 12:54

To all questioning the Dutcheese triple effect:

Thor is pretty close to exactly stating it. Birdman and Solver, please refer to the Additional Report Link called TEN619 above. This report has the details you requested for all results since the beginning, (the ratings shown are the "before match" ratings at that time). The dates shown are NOT in order of how the ratings were calculated, due to the back rating of some games.

And Solver, why must you always undermine the system with your comments without consulting me first?? I'm starting to tire of you being the ever powerful "CTP Ladder Administrator" -- nothing but whining and no help with the actual work.

The numbers are accurate. Dutcheese was tripled due to Slamp's reporting of turns 119, 129, 139. If Birdman needs to be adjusted, this is a real pain in the a**! Somebody out there who understands statistics (as well as this rating system) (Paul, King Thor, Keygen... somebody??) please give me some suppport on the difficulty of BACK calculating this already rippled effect system.

Sorry Birdman, the best I can do, (if Slamp agrees) is to give you a one time adjustment upward to account for the possible error of Slamp including you when you shouldn't have been. I hate to do this, as it sets a precedent and causes future contention with even the most minor disagreements -- and creates more work for me! Remember, all my work is voluntary. I'm not getting a dime for my time. I don't mind doing it, but if it is going to be just "whiner appeasement" time from now on, I might reconsider.

[This message has been edited by quinns (edited February 04, 2001).]

**TheBirdMan** · February 4, 2001, 15:23

I have mailed this to the DC players and Quinns and Solver:

Bird.

***

2 Q:

1st: Do I need glasses (some would probably say YES). I do not have any turn in archive between 135 and 140, but when I look at the PG for turn 140 I am clearly over Fraze and have been that for some turns.

Do any (preferable Fraze) have turn 139 and if, pls post who is last.

2nd: I don't think King Thor and I should be rated for turn 119. King Thor because his first turn was around 124-125 and me because my first turn was at 119.

If I have read the rules correct, it IS the FIRST player (Fraze in this game) that should report on turn *9, this time on 119 - the report therefore covers turns played BEFORE turn 119. By this, I should not be rated on turn 119.

***

Comments?

Edit:

And I wrote this on Monkey 2:

I am withdrawing from the ranked players in this game.

I will be too costly (just take a look at the ratings due to a replacement in DC).

This will probably cost me another penalty - but I will survive on longer terms.

Now we shall see if Quinns will take me as an example and have me "executed"
[This message has been edited by TheBirdMan (edited February 04, 2001).]

**TheBirdMan** · February 4, 2001, 16:13

I have just read the start of the topics on the rating system.

I think we need a follow-up on, who and when ratings are reported.

From what I read now, it seems like it should be the LAST player, that reported on the *9 turns.

But if so, what about the moves this last player makes on his/shes own *9 turn? When will this be added to the PG? At turn *0 when the first player open his/shes turn? Is the last player always "a turn after the others"?

I am just wondering - and that might be the reason why I (always had) thought, that it was the first player, who made the report. But it does look, that I'm wrong here.

Bird

Edit (what a day for Quinns).

To something completely different:

I think we are missing a little information in the weekly report:

We have:

Pending *9th Turn Processing:

Pending Delinquency Adjustment (-.1):

But I think we should have:

Pending *9th Turn Processing:

Pending Delinquency Adjustment (-.1):

Processed *.9th turns: (examples)
DC turn 119 Klair,,,,,,
DC turn 129 Klair,,,,,Fraze,TheBirdMan
DC turn 139 Klair,,,,,TheBirdMan,Fraze
Do some Pbem turn 49 TheBirdMan,,,,,,

... etc, then we could see which games you actually have recieved and what has been reported since last ratingday.

[This message has been edited by TheBirdMan (edited February 04, 2001).]

**Paul** · February 4, 2001, 17:49

BirdMan, the powergraph is calculated at the start of the first player's turn and will be the same for all players. So when you look at the powergraph as the 7th player you will see the exact same powergraph that the first player saw. So it doesn't matter which player reports the ..9th turn powergraph.

I also remember reading somewhere that the powergraph is one or two turns behind. Anyway, if you only joined a game at the ..9th turn your play will have had no influence on that turn's powergraph and as far as I'm concerned you should therefore not be rated for that turn.

**quinns** · February 4, 2001, 19:50

Yes, thanks Paul. As usual, you are 100% correct. The Power Graph remains the same for all players throughout the cycle of the turn. And there is exactly a two turn lag on the Power Graph. (You can prove both of these aspects to yourself, Birdman, by playing all 3 players in a test hot seat game.)

Birdman and Slamp, please resolve this contested Dutcheese problem and let me know what you come up with. I would be happy to give Birdman a credit to his rating if there was indeed an error. Please note that this is somewhat of a pain, and the next time any *9th turn is reported by anybody, I beg you all to make sure it is accurate first.

I would like comments on Keygen's well intentioned proposals above. Even though I believe his ideas would be too SUBJECTIVE in a game and very open to controversy, I always welcome CONSTRUCTIVE criticism.

Your forever humble servent (NOT!) ---
Quinns

**quinns** · February 4, 2001, 20:17

Birdman, I have taken your advise and... from this point forward ... I'll show which game and turn number was rated in the TEN619_AM report (under Additional Report Links above). Good idea. I've been meaning to add that, but your prompting got me to actually do it. I've only allowed 12 characters for the new column (Game Name) which will include the first 8 letters of the game name plus the turn number.

(Oh, and Birdman, the rule is that you need at least THREE rated players that are being RATED IN THE GAME in order for the game to be a RATED GAME. This disqualifies Lung's Death Match until you convince Mobius to also be rated. Sorry.)
[This message has been edited by quinns (edited February 04, 2001).]

**MOBIUS** · February 4, 2001, 20:36

Originally posted by Keygen on 02-04-2001 12:56 PM
And by choosing on which games we will be rated and which not will surely not show the true ability of a player. Except if he has inherited a nation in a bad situation as I guess BirdMan has.
Accually in that case the player shouldn't get rated at all! Even if the inherited nation is in a very good shape but the game is in a late stage.

Actually, I second what Keygen has to say about inherited nations - they should not be rated.

Just as Birdman has suffered from the Monkey ratings, he seeks to be rated for a game (Lung DM3) where the previous player Shavlor had already effectively won the game...

Players should neither benefit from, or be penalised by inheriting positions in games...

My 2 cents...

Keep up the good work Quinns!

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