Turn 110 150 BC

[UnOrthOdOx]

Yes, I am of the opinion we should still go for the Library.

Great scientists. And I can't find a list right now to confirm, but I believe they will allow us to lightbulb Math and/or construction.

If we work 2 scientists, and get the library, that's 4 scientists, and we'll have 2 Great scientists within 20 - 25 turns.

With the situation as it is now, we're at least 10 turns from being able to make a single crossbow if we use the engineer. That won't change if we lose the GL to someone else in 4 turns.

What I need to find is a list of what gets lightbulbed by scientists. I believe Math would be lightbulbed next, but after that I'm not sure whether it would go currency or Construction. If construction, it's a no-brainer to go for the GL, reasearch towards Math with the resulting 4 scientists in AB, and lightbulb Construction with the GS produced.

[OzzyKP]

It seems very unlikely they are going to move their stack onto our grassland killing field.

[UnOrthOdOx]

They have to to get at Lima.

Otherwise that stack goes south to join the other one.

Which works fine for us as well. Our problem is more the seperated front than the numbers. It also opens a huge back door into Sarantium.

[Slade Wilson]

Not sure why we keep going off on GS's, as they cannot bulb construction anyway but instead, sailing

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/gp_tech_pref.php

And ill say even if they could, that would seem to be a terrible cost effectiveness ratio overall for the purposes of catapults; using GE to build GL, then the GS to bulb construction(?)...when we could research construction in relatively decent time anyway.

I imagine the sarantiums to be smart about moving on bad terrain and will mostly stick to areas where we simply can not clear them out. Most likely they will be bringing up catapults sometime(ETA anyone? How long have they had math?) and then things will be very hairy.

I just cant understand why we are still thinking about the GL when we are in the middle of a war and aswell have gone unpaid for previous actions(in my mind horde still owes us a settler and sarantium mathematics, and woe to those teams when we come back into a position of power )

[UnOrthOdOx]

Ah, that's what I was looking for.

Horde owes us Sailing and settler, but have been paying everything else, are researching sailing, and expecting a settler within a couple turns, across a war zone (remember, they are at least "at war" with Sarantium) is kinda ludicrous. I expect to get at least sailing from them.

Sarantium owes us Math. We're not getting that one.

We don't know the depths of the war right now. And I'm not believing we're in quite as dire a perdicament as you apparantly do.

IMO, the war hinges on getting Cats.

Crossbows offer us better defense, and a better counter to melee units, in about 10 turns. They also severely hinder the chance of GETTING cats, as we'ld have to kill research to get the gold for upgrades.

The library sets us up with Great Scientist at roughly 10 turns, 30 turns, 60 turns, etc. And allows us to continue a decent research rate while maintaining 0%.

Grabbing the library, we could, for instance, kill research, set 4 scientists in AB, research towards Machinery (no idea how long), lightbulb Mathematics (it would be prioritized before sailing) in about 10 turns.

This gives us gold for upgrades, likely only delays our ability to USE machinery a few turns, and keeps a good pace research towards cats.

Another option there would be research math and make an academy. It might get construction fairly quick, I don't know, have to crunch numbers.

Yes, it's a weaker move for the immediate future. With that I agree. It's a much stronger move overall.

I would rather abandon some cities, sacrifice them, build a solid defense at FS, and build the library to continue researching.

If we try to grab machinery now, it sacrifices research later, and further puts us behind the catapult race. Doesn't matter how many crossbows we make, cats will chew us up eventually.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Also, last communication with the Horde had them getting Sailing this turn.

Another reason for me to contact them.

[OzzyKP]

Good. I think we at least need to try diplomacy to defuse this.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Proposed message up in the HOrde thread.

[Slade Wilson]

Well, perhaps the situation isnt so grim as i believe. They certainly have not been acting in a very efficient manner in consistency with someone out to conquer.

Sarantium owes us Math. We're not getting that one.

I was more thinking they would hand it-or a substitute-over when we defeated their army and razed a city or two

[Slade Wilson]

Alright, i will stop pushing the machinery thing and head for GL only.

Now, i have been holding some turns-especially the last one-longer than i could have, partly to get feedback. Should i just play and send it ASAP? (note i was under the 24h limit last time)

I will post a 125 BC thread and what will happen next turn.... Big issue;shall we attack the sarantium stack as it moves out on the grass.

Also if it isnt overstepping my powers, i already opened up prelim 1-on-1 talks with the hordes man paddy a few days ago. he takes the position that their recent diplomatic dispatches to us have been ignored(??) and they intend to attack sarantium with that stack of archers\keshiks. but do continue with the diplomacy thread posts, its not ''officialese''

By preliminary talk i mean the sort of conversation you have over coffee not in the negotiation room.

[UnOrthOdOx]

No, we like to be able to have input.

If we get to a point where it's just running predictable stuff, yes we can play asap, but with each turn not knowing what we'll see, it's best to have input.

If you're talking to Paddy, you need to copy that conversation into the Horde thread. That applies for anyone of another team.

Any discussion about this game should be put in the appropriate team's thread.

Yes, it's possible something got ignored in October because of my obsession with Halloween.

[Slade Wilson]

No, we like to be able to have input.

Well i got the impression from the turn discussion thread it was wanted faster. Suits me to sit on it awile.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Turn discussion thread out there in the public thread? Yeah, they want it asap. Me, I was just trying to keep us under the 24hr limit.