Crossroads? - The Horse Situation

[Kloreep]

First the Horde tried to steal our horse site, razing our own in the process, now Sarantium shows up on our doorstep with their own settler. And I very much doubt they have nice intentions with it.

So, where do we go from here?

[polarnomad]

They know we have invested blood into the region. They know our claims. If they go ahead then I say it's an act of war.

[Kloreep]

I'm thinking much the same. Two points, however:

-I believe we did say we would never start a war, particularly for territorial gain. Those statements were meant to apply to the later game when teams try to swallow others whole in order to put themselves above the average empire size, whereas we are simply trying to hold on to our region and its resources. Nevertheless, we would technically be in violation here if we were to declare war. This is okay by me... I'm more concerned with the spirit of this rule than the letter. Their settler is simply too close. This would give them some PR, however.
-In order to take on Sarantium, we have to forget about taking the fight to the Horde, at least in the short term. We simply can't split our forces between Dome and the Horde, much less Home, the Horde, and Sarantium, if we are facing war from two fronts.

A major decision... but my thinking at this point is that we deliver Sarantium with an ultimatum that we will declare war if they settle by the horses. And, if they do, follow through with it.

To be more specific, and to make sure we don't have to keep reiterating what land we demand, I suggest we simply define two lines, at a right-angle, around us - going south through the fish and the gold to our east, then taking a turn west and passing through the southern of the two gems. If they settle a city on a tile on this line, or across it in our direction (west and/or north), we declare war. Worst case of Sarantium settling the rest of the continent (and that's not gonna happen with the Horde here) this line should ensure we get at least one gem (with the plains hill by the horses), completely ensures us the horses, and also ensures us at least some of the sugar. It gives them the eastern gold if they want it, which as far as I'm concerned is fair enough theirs anyway; we already have our own gold source besides.

[Kloreep]

I made an animated gif about our good old horse tile.

I feel better now. I think animated gifs must have stress-relieving therapeutic powers.

[Kloreep]

So, if we make this ultimatum... I suggest we move the axe & spear stack 3 to be next to the archer/settler stack. If it settles, we will be able to instantly attack. The archer would not only still be damaged (not sure to what extent - exactly how much does a unit in a city heal each turn?) but would only have +50% strength (city defense, and we'd be crossing a river). So, the axe should have better than 50% odds to win if it attacks, assuming they don't have another archer just about to join the stack. With the spear along, we'd have very good odds next turn to take (and autoraze) Sarantium's city - albeit assuming no Sarantium reinforcements, and assuming we're willing to accept that one of our units may die in the attack.

Also if we do this, the axe to the southwest should move back 9, and we'll want to cover the gold hill with the axe from FS to make sure Sarantium's warrior can't deny it to us.

These are all ifs, though. How do the rest of you think we should respond?

[polarnomad]

If we move 3 and they settle where they are, we'll get pushed away from their borders.

I agree with the ultimatum.

[Kloreep]

Forgot about the border push... still think in Civ3 terms sometimes.
Not sure what else we can do though, 3 at least puts us next to the settler stack in case they try to move it inwards.

[polarnomad]

If they move inwards, we'll be poised to attack from where we are. If they ignore the ultimatum, we can take out both warriors and go for their city.

The ultimatum should state that crossing the river with the settler will result in war, as will settling anywhere which would include the horse tile in their city boundaries.

[Kloreep]

Sounds good re: ultimatum.

Good points on the axe/spear movement. Keeping them as they are is probably best.

[polarnomad]

Of course, I don't see how they can possibly ignore the ultimatum, unless they have backup coming.

[polarnomad]

So shall we draw up a tentative draft for an ultimatum, and then wait for some more input?

[Octavian X]

proposed message:

To the leaders of Sarantium:

Mercenary scouts report the presence of settlers from your nation very close to the site of the ruins of Foxtrot Stables. This is a worrying development, which the Mercenary leadership views as an aggressive act. The horses at that location are necessary for the development of the Mercenary economy, and there are, of course, horses already easily available near the Sarantium homeland. Additionally, the placement of any city so close to our capital city is a threat to our territorial integrity.

We recognize that this may be a simple diplomatic miscommunication, and that the settler in question may well be moving to a less threatening place. However, an attempt to claim our source of horses is a hostile act, and as such we issue this ultimatum - if Sarantium builds a city near the site of ruins of Foxtrot Stables with the intent of claiming our source of horses, we will declare war, and we will fight in order to secure our territory.

It has been a pleasure to do business with Sarantium, and we look forward to working with you in the future.

[polarnomad]

Seems reasonable ehough to me.

EDIT: Although, I would add that moving their settler across the river will also constitute non-compliance with our ultimatum and be considered a declaration of war. Something along those lines anyway...

[snoopy369]

Horse envy I love the animated gif

[Kloreep]

I'd still say go with specific lines, such as the no-Sarantium-settling zone I propose we block out, or some alternative such as "lands we Mercs claim for ourselves" etc. - so that we don't send them away from the horse site and then have them settle, say, the plains hills/pigs/fish site near AB. The time for politeness and negotiating border agreements already seems to have been tossed out by Sarantium, might as well go whole hog and make sure we don't have to issue another ultimatum later on to keep another desired city site.

Agreed with PN, include further westward movement of the settler this turn as also unacceptable, since it can only mean a western city site when it eventually does settle...