Turn 60 - 1640 BC

[Kloreep]

The situation:

[Kloreep]

Some moves will depend on what the Horde does. The archer will presumably raze Foxtrot, so Spear fortifying & the axe nearby moving 2 will serve to keep it from moving farther in.

The Horde scout near Fort Sierra is in a tough position. Any move inward will leave it vulnerable to the axe, and we'd probably want to jump on that opportunity; the scout cannot capture or pillage, but it can deny our cities tiles to work.

Otherwise, the axe near AB should continue moving south (2 probably), the worker near AB should move 2 and road, continuing to FS, and Rush the worker (on the gold hill) should road so we can get that +1 happiness.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Have the worker road the stones on his way down connecting the city, just in case you weren't already planning that.

AB next build: Settler, IMO. We could use a 3rd city asap with foxtrot being gone, IMO. But we want this city to be as productive as possible ASAP.

Is sierra working the gold now?

[Kloreep]

I agree AB should build a settler next. We could either rebuild Foxtrot (that plains hill is available now) or go for that eastern city site near Sarantium. Either would need some hills mined to become truly productive though; I'm afraid there is no ultra-quick fix for another productive site. (That eastern site could be very so. Pasture the pigs for +4 food, then mine two of those plains hills. 10 hammers per turn at pop 3, 14 at pop 4 with another mine.)

Yes, Sierra's working the gold.

[inamirrordarkly]

According to Flamer's email with the 1640BC save Foxtrot is gone.

What makes The Horde think they can get away with this?

[UnOrthOdOx]

Because, speaking as a warmonger, most people lose all senses when they take losses.

We totally screwed them on this horse stealing. Royally, totally, screwed them (more because of their complete lack of sense with reguards to buildering methods). I probably would have done the same thing in their shoes in a PBEM in their situation. Yould be surprised how often the oppent goes for an ill conceived all out disorganized attack that is easily dealt with. Their archers are designed to squeeze and defend. A lot of folks don't know how to deal with that.

The other Team Merc has no business still being in that particular game if it weren't for a team getting all out of sorts and forgetting how to wage a proper war. I don't think Kloreep and I have ever figured out what was in their head. One of the most ill conceived attacks I've ever witnessed in Civ III.

Anywho, we are not going to lose our senses.

We, however, are going to squeeze them, and attempt to deny them that copper down there. We are incapable of taking their capitol without major losses. We don't even need to produce the troops to suffer those losses. Confine them to their capitol (and if it's also highly defended when we get there wherever the second city is), deny them resources, and continue our growth. We'll have cats to think about their removal eventually.

[OzzyKP]

While I do agree they must pay for this, I wonder what would happen if we cripple the Horde. It is clear that for much of the game we will be stuck on this continent with just the three of us. If our goal as team mercenary is to make profit and sell our services to warring parties, it seems to do us no good to eliminate or cripple 50% of our customer base. And if Sarantium has nothing to worry about the Horde, we in fact eliminate 100% of our customer base until astronomy since Sarantium will have no real need for us.

[Kloreep]

It's true we eliminate a customer if we eliminate the Horde. Myself, I don't think this calls for eliminating the Horde. They've hurt us, not killed us; we should respond in kind by executing a choke like UnO describes. Deny them freedom of movement, harrass their units, and keep them from sending out settlers or workers without heavy protection. Ideally, we deny them horses and copper both for as long as possible, keeping continued execution of our choke possible so long as we are willing to produce and send reinforcements. In short, we slow them down and hurt their building just as they have ours. I think short term, we should proceed with a choking strategy; deny their building units free movement. They razed a Merc city; that should not be responded to lightly. We should punish them for it. Firstly, because we need to make sure attacks on Team Merc are seen as dangerous to the health of the attacker; and secondly, because they have opened the door to our retaliation clause that will let us attack them during this opening phase of territorial expansion. Sign an agreeable border treaty with Sarantium, win our battles with the Horde and force our border with them to be agreeable for us, and we're sitting nicely in territorial expansion.

Long term, however, it's true that eliminating the Horde is really not in our best interests. Eventually I'd be amenable to peace, but we'll have to see what the Horde does. Also what Sarantium does; as we and the Horde knock each other about, Sarantium may become capable of knocking the Horde out if they so wish - and with so many players on their team formerly of Babylon, you can bet they won't need entirely rational reasons to do so.

[UnOrthOdOx]

The trick is to get Sarantium to pay us to eliminate the Horde.

[polarnomad]

That sure sounds like a plan!

Harassing the Horde and preventing their expansion seems fair, but let's also pop out another settler asap and resettle Foxtrot.

[polarnomad]

Save's here, and here's the situation:

[polarnomad]

I guess the worker near AB can move 2 and road. Worker near Foxtrot may continue to road gold, or should he start chopping to help out the barracks and the following axe? Axe near AB could move 3.

Are we fortifying the spear, and moving axe east of FS 2? Axe on copper fortifies?

[Kloreep]

I propose this move-set:
-Rush roads
-Axe by AB 2
-Worker by AB 2 and road
-Axe east of FS 2 (NO to declaring war on Sarantium, of course )
-Spear forts
-Axe west of FS forts.
-Queue up another settler in AB

Also, we're fast approaching a dilemma with FS. Its next citizen will need military protection to be happy; so we'll be wasting 2 hammers every turn a mil unit is not in FS. But a unit cannot simultaneously be in FS making the citizens happy and be capable of guarding the gold hill.

Edit: First of all, x-post. Second, I just realized that if the worker does road, the gold coming in will make the citizen happy so a mil unit doesn't have to be in the city; so let's have Rush road.

[polarnomad]

Turn played.