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Builds & Workers, ~2480 BC onwards

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  • Builds & Workers, ~2480 BC onwards

    I've tried to enclose unimportant stuff in italics for the less builderer-inclined.

    We have some long-term plans to consider...

    First, Alpha Base. What will it build next? Currently it just finished the settler (as of the end of 2600) and is now building an Axeman, assisted by our worker's forest chop. It should be free to go on to its next build, perhaps with some overflow to boot, in 2480 BC or 2440 BC. (Here's why: Over the 2560 BC and 2520 BC turns it will generate the hammers needed for the build - exactly 15 out of the 35, with the other 20 guaranteed in 3 turns by the chop. I believe that means 2520 BC will be when the 20 hammers are delivered, but I still haven't got a handle on these newfangled Civ4 workers. Could be in 2480 BC.) So, we'll get to choose another build relatively soon. I think we should go for another Axe, at least for a few turns, and then another settler; this way AB won't be stopped from growing to the next size a mere turn or two before it's about to. (If we immediately go onto a settler or worker, the city will stop growth 1 or 2 turns away from getting to pop 3.) We could examine, though, switching to a settler as soon as the growth occurs, leaving the axe nearer completion but not quite there and pulling the same trick we did with this current settler - sending AB's lone garrison out and quickly replacing it.

    Tile-wise, I think the two citizens of AB are exactly where they should be; the copper tile for a load of hammers, and the pigs tile for a load of food that will help it grow and enable it to work the oasis once more. So I think our only concern in the short-term will be to a) build something besides settlers and workers during the turns 37-40 so that it can grow to pop 3 ASAP, and b) to make sure the new citizen goes on the oasis when it is born.

    Now to the second matter... what the new city (name undetermined) should build first. It will not have copper when it is built no matter how we may try. (It would take 8 turns past the founding of the city to bring it copper, and that's assuming that we have the worker do nothing but road once it's done chopping.) So, our build options are rather limited at first as far as military units go, particularly since we don't have archery. I think it should either build a second scout or start right off with a barracks. I'm somewhat dubious of the scout, as a full human barbarian can't be that far off. I think a barracks would be a better idea. Even if we later delay it in order to get the first axe sooner, we'll at least have made some progress toward it.

    Not that this city will be building all that fast at first if I get my way. The city will have wheat in its initial radius, - 3 food, an additional food that can carry it to +3 food and make it grow in just 8 turns, while adding another commerce to our treasury as well. Yes, this is the tile we should work first.

    And last but not least, what to do with our worker. As I've said before, I think AB doesn't need it nearly as much as the new city will, and so I think it should head down there. Question is, do we first establish roads, or simply send the worker down post-haste? I think the best route would be to send the worker right to the copper tile by the new city, stopping to road a forest inbetween. This gets the copper mined ASAP and then connected ASAP, two turns after. Here's how it would work: After chopping the forest by AB, the worker (without roading) moves immediately 3-2, 2-1 to one of the forests between the city and the copper. Here, the worker roads (3 turns). So the worker has spent 5 turns getting to the forest and roading - exactly how long it takes for the new city's borders to expand, putting the copper in our borders. This means the worker will be free to move to the copper and start mining as soon as it becomes possible to mine it (can't build mines/irrigation etc outside your own borders, only roads). The mine takes 4 turns. So, 9 turns after the city is founded, the mine is complete. And remember, it should take only 8 turns to grow once the city is founded, so the copper tile will be producing gobs of hammers just 1 turn after the second citizen is ready to receive them. And, to top it off, the worker can then road in 2 turns after finishing the mine, bringing copper into the 2nd City just 11 turns after founding. Under this plan, copper is connected only 3 more turns after it would be if we undertook to build a road between AB and 2nd City immediately, and as a plus the copper mine has been finished for 2 turns at 11 turns after founding, rather than at least 1 turn away from being built - a benefit of 9 hammers or more.

  • #2
    2nd axe FOR SURE prior to another settler. Both can move southish as they will be needed for neither defense or happiness in AB due to our second citiy'ss line of site giving PLENTY of notice of advancing troops. A show of force like letting Sarantium and the Horde see a couple axe walking around will serve as a huge deterrent to them getting any ideas as well.

    As for issue 2. BARRACKS!!! We should have copper hooked by the time it finishes. I DO think we should pop it as soon as we hit size 2 and are able, however.

    Issue 3, send the worker right on down, mine and hook up THAT copper. We'll backtrack roads later. They WOULD speed that 2nd settler to it's location by a turn or 2, but that's about it. Military units will be mostly coming from the second location.
    One who has a surplus of the unorthodox shall attain surpassing victories. - Sun Pin
    You're wierd. - Krill

    An UnOrthOdOx Hobby

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    • #3
      I think sending the worker straight down to farm the wheat and then mine the copper would be a better way to go. It's going to take a little while for city 2 to grow to size 2 before it can really use the copper. At the very least pre-build the farm for a few turns.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
        2nd axe FOR SURE prior to another settler. Both can move southish as they will be needed for neither defense or happiness in AB due to our second citiy'ss line of site giving PLENTY of notice of advancing troops. A show of force like letting Sarantium and the Horde see a couple axe walking around will serve as a huge deterrent to them getting any ideas as well.
        A show of force would certainly be possible, particularly once we get another city east of this new one, sealing off AB from any chance of attack.

        Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
        As for issue 2. BARRACKS!!! We should have copper hooked by the time it finishes. I DO think we should pop it as soon as we hit size 2 and are able, however.
        Barracks are expensive, and remember that the city will be at 1 hpt while it grows to size 2. So the barracks will not be that far along by the time we hook up copper by this route. Also remember that we have all these great tiles and, at the beginning of the city, too few citizens to work them all. Pop rushing when it's only at size 2 means that we would then face an unpleasant choice: work the copper, getting a decent amount of hammers but really stunting its growth (only +1 food stored a turn) or working the wheat to grow fast and passing on all the hammers we could be getting out of the copper mine. And remember, growth is going to be important for this site; even once the wheat and copper are worked, we still want it getting the gold and the stone in relatively short order if we can make it so. Finally, we haven't switched to Slavery yet, so we'd have to take a turn of anarchy to gain poprushing ability.

        If the civics switch seemed worth it, poprushing might be okay at higher levels of population, but I think 2nd site has too many good tiles to be rushing at size 2. Or 3 or 4 once we get tiles improved for those levels.

        Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
        Issue 3, send the worker right on down, mine and hook up THAT copper. We'll backtrack roads later. They WOULD speed that 2nd settler to it's location by a turn or 2, but that's about it. Military units will be mostly coming from the second location.
        Yep, my thoughts too. We don't have any need for mil units for the city north of AB when it comes time for that, and AB itself will be able to produce the only mil unit it needs in the short-term now.

        Originally posted by polarnomad
        I think sending the worker straight down to farm the wheat and then mine the copper would be a better way to go. It's going to take a little while for city 2 to grow to size 2 before it can really use the copper. At the very least pre-build the farm for a few turns.
        Working the wheat, it will only take the city 8 turns to grow to size 2. So if the worker rushes straight for the copper (stopping to road a connecting forest) it still only finishes the mine in 9 turns, 1 turn after the 2nd citizen arrives and it becomes easy for the city to work the copper.
        It's true we miss out on some food, but the alternative is missing out on some shields, and in gross numbers, the mine produces +3 hammers on top of the tile's regular output while the farm produces only +2 food.
        It may be true that the farm is relatively quick, though. Hmm... if we went for the farm first, the mine would be delayed 6 turns (1 turn of movement and 5 turns to farm), for a cost of 18 hammers. If we go for the mine first and then farm, we are instead sacrificing 11 turns of farm food, or 22 food. So actually, the farm wins the gross numbers contest... albeit only by a bit. However, I'm not sure the worker would be able to keep up with all this growth; the city might get more citizens, yes, but the gold and the stone wouldn't be near being improved, so these new citizens would only bring in an extra resource or two.

        The barracks build, if we go ahead and finish it before pumping out units, is not going to be in any danger of finishing before hooking up copper, so I don't think that's an issue. Even if we mine the copper first, It will take 18 turns from the city's founding to finish. If we farm first, it will take even longer, which means even longer before its first axeman (in either case of finishing the barracks or switching to an axe ASAP, really).
        Overall I think it would be best to sacrifice 4 resources to have the worker boost hammers first instead of food; then it can attend to the wheat once the copper is set up.
        This also makes me think the poprushing is a bad idea at these low levels. The 22 food we'd gain from the farm is about right for 1 pop, but we'd probably be rushing it down to size 2 from size 3, so it wouldn't quite be enough for a growth. That means it would be equal in value to a large fraction of the shields we'd gain from the rush - but again, not all. And unless I'm mixing up Civ4 and Civ3, poprushing gives us 20 shields only per pop, meaning we'd be basically back to where we were with the copper mine - except we'd have had to go through anarchy to switch civics.
        Last edited by Kloreep; August 24, 2006, 15:41.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Kloreep

          Barracks are expensive, and remember that the city will be at 1 hpt while it grows to size 2. So the barracks will not be that far along by the time we hook up copper by this route. Also remember that we have all these great tiles and, at the beginning of the city, too few citizens to work them all. Pop rushing when it's only at size 2 means that we would then face an unpleasant choice: work the copper, getting a decent amount of hammers but really stunting its growth (only +1 food stored a turn) or working the wheat to grow fast and passing on all the hammers we could be getting out of the copper mine. And remember, growth is going to be important for this site; even once the wheat and copper are worked, we still want it getting the gold and the stone in relatively short order if we can make it so. Finally, we haven't switched to Slavery yet, so we'd have to take a turn of anarchy to gain poprushing ability.

          If the civics switch seemed worth it, poprushing might be okay at higher levels of population, but I think 2nd site has too many good tiles to be rushing at size 2. Or 3 or 4 once we get tiles improved for those levels.
          I guess I just don't really have a good grasp of HOW expensive as I hardly ever play non-aggressive....
          One who has a surplus of the unorthodox shall attain surpassing victories. - Sun Pin
          You're wierd. - Krill

          An UnOrthOdOx Hobby

          Comment


          • #6
            Yeah, 60 shields for us passive folk.

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            • #7
              Just so I understand what you're suggesting:



              Spear=red. Settler=blue. Worker=yellow.

              Over the next 3 turns the spear and settler will move and found the 2nd city. The turn after that our worker will make his way to tile "x" (2 turns) and build a road for 2 turns. Then move to tile "square" and pre-build a road for 1 turn, at which point city 2's fat cross expands and allows us to switch the worker to building a mine. Once the mine is complete, finish the road, move to the wheat tile and farm it.

              Yes?

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              • #8
                Maybe I miscalculated, it's possible the worker will have to build a road for 1 turn. But yeah, that's what I'm thinking.

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                • #9
                  Ok, sounds good to me.

                  EDIT: Actually, you may not have miscalculated. It all depends on whether the first two points of culture are applied the turn a city is founded or not. In any case, the tile will be mined and roaded before moving on to farm the wheat.
                  Last edited by polarnomad; August 25, 2006, 17:51.

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