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  • Something else to sell?

    It struck me that we can also "sell" Wonders.

    *dodges nuclear handgrenade being thrown by UnO who shouts "No builderers!!!*

    We don't actually have to build a Wonder to sell it, we just have to let others think we are going to.

    Picture the scene: We tell a Fin/Ind/Org civ that we are one turn away from completing Great Lighthouse/Colussus (once we have appropriate tech, inputs and time for building - while we were actually building Axemen/whatever).

    Since we move first, they have to believe us. Now we can sell that Wonder to someone. Lets say they buy it for 500 gold, we say we will switch away, and that lets them rush it to completion that turn.

    Obviously, we need to find a buyer, because if our bluff is called that could be embarrasing - although we could claim we are holding off to do it again next turn. However, I think that most of the civs that want the bucks will be looking at those two Wonders and will go to any lengths to get them.

    Has this been mentioned in the GP auction thread - I haven't looked at the threads yet. Perhaps we can spring it on people as a surprise during the game?
    Have guns. Will travel. +27123150425

  • #2
    Since we move first, they have to believe us. Now we can sell that Wonder to someone. Lets say they buy it for 500 gold, we say we will switch away, and that lets them rush it to completion that turn.
    I doubt this will work. If I am the other party, I would say "show me the proof that you will finish in 1 turn". If you can't or won't, then I would take the risk of losing the Wonder. Even if I don't get the Wonder, I get some money back.

    For us, how would you estimate when the other party is going t complete the Wonder ?


    Obviously, we need to find a buyer, because if our bluff is called that could be embarrasing - although we could claim we are holding off to do it again next turn. However, I think that most of the civs that want the bucks will be looking at those two Wonders and will go to any lengths to get them.
    Our business is to get new customer & keep them happy. I doubt your approach will get us there.
    C3C ISDG Final Round : Actively Lurking

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    • #3
      I agree, this is more of a blackmail approach than Merc. I like it, but we'd need to actually be 1 turn away for it to work (so we could provide a screenshot as proof) and I'm not sure pissing people off is worth the benefit of being payed to switch.

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      • #4
        Might be usefull to piss someone off so they attack us and activate our defense clause...
        One who has a surplus of the unorthodox shall attain surpassing victories. - Sun Pin
        You're wierd. - Krill

        An UnOrthOdOx Hobby

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        • #5
          Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
          Might be usefull to piss someone off so they attack us and activate our defense clause...
          Priceless!

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          • #6
            Assuming we are landlocked with no room to expand we could always sell settlers to other teams. (or settle a city for them and then sell them the city)

            I wouldn't recommend making this cheap. Nor would I recommend doing it as long as we have use for the settlers ourselves.
            Captain of Team Apolyton - ISDG 2012

            When I was younger I thought curfews were silly, but now as the daughter of a young woman, I appreciate them. - Rah

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            • #7
              @ Rush: We don't have to show them the proof, we can just say "Okay, wait 'till next turn and you'll be notified". And we can always say "You were our first customer, since you aren't interested, we'll go to your competition."

              It's actually quite easy to estimate how long it will take to build, we just add in the research times (conservative approx), we know how many hammers the Wonder costs and how many hammers we produce. We take a conservative approach and use the estimates. It will be basically the same approach as generating a cost for any Axemen we sell...

              And if our bluff is called, we approach next move and say the same thing, and, if queried on it, we say "do you want to buy it, or do we go to your competition." As time goes by, the teams trying for the win will become more concerned that they will lose it.

              And if someone else builds it, will the other teams believe that they didn't buy it from us? The issue is the psychology and the proof...


              @Kloreep and others: I don't deny that it could irritate some, but those teams that are really trying for a win will really be trying for those particular Wonders - and will they be willing to take the chance that we are kidding?

              It could be argued that even Team Merc may have to try and keep up in the tech race on Normal speed as the units go obsolete so soon and techs come fast (provided you have the money to research!!!). So people probably won't doubt that we need the money to build units, or that we need the Wonder to keep up in the money stakes.... Shall they assume that we won't build cottages as Mercs?

              I think it actually falls in quite well with the general psychology of our game plan as seen by others. That is the psychological warfare aspect that we are aiming for - and that is the psychological aspect that any Mercenary "sales" (whether settlers or spearmen) address.

              Okay,okay, this was mentioned a bit tongue-in-cheek (although there was a serious aspect to it) to start with (its been boring in Somalia) and I have now fallen into the typical university faculty trap of rushing to the defence of an off-the-cuff/brainstorming idea.
              Have guns. Will travel. +27123150425

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              • #8
                Your post remind me of one method to get your Wonder faster, possibly outpacing your opponents.

                A worker takes 4 turns (IIRC) to chop the forest. Stop the worker action after 3 turns. Move on to the next forest, repeat. All these are done when the worker has nothing better to do and you don't have the tech to build the Wonder you wanted.

                Once you acquire the tech, sent the worker to the first forest, chop it in one turn. If the forest are roaded, your worker can move to the next forest and chop next turn. One forest chop = min 30 hammers. In 5 turns, it will be 150 hammers ! Enough to complete the Oracle.
                C3C ISDG Final Round : Actively Lurking

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                • #9
                  Interesting technique, Rush; I haven't heard of this one before. I must say it's on the borderline, though, since it somewhat bypasses Civ4's new model of preventing you from starting on a wonder before you've researched the required tech. I think we should bring this one to the public forum for discussion & vote.

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                  • #10
                    I don't see this as an exploit, to quote from CFC GOTM : "This is not an exploit at all IMO since it is just a question of timing. You must still spend the same worker turns by chopping."

                    Another quote, this time from the CFC GOTM Admin :
                    For the purposes of the Game of the Month exploits are opportunities created by programming errors or accidents of sequencing or other subtleties of the software that permit a player to gain a benefit substantially disproportionate to cost. There are some value judgements in that statement, but I don't believe it can be stretched to apply to the case you are describing.

                    In this situation you have not got something for nothing. You have invested worker turns that could have been used for other activities. Where's the disproportionate benefit? Where's the programming error?

                    We run GOTM to play the game as it is designed and delivered by Firaxis. We are asking you to play the same sort of game you could play on your own, not one of our own design. Only in exceptional circumstances do we second guess the designers' intentions and over-ride the way the game operates out of the box.
                    C3C ISDG Final Round : Actively Lurking

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                    • #11
                      I don't see why this technique would need to be submitted to the public forum for a vote. It involves no cheating, only planning ahead.

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