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**PJayTycy** · May 5, 2008, 04:25

here a 2-hour chatlog between bt and myself...

{8:19:15} binTravkin : I think the northern one should go north since it's more likely to pass continent there
{8:19:33} binTravkin : I just stumbled upon mercs border, which looks surprisingly similar to barb border
{8:22:08} PJayTycy : yes, we could already see mercs border at the end of last turn (there was a tiny black corner if you look carefully)
{8:22:39} PJayTycy : in any case, there's only one column missing which we didn't explore yet
{8:23:43} PJayTycy : and, if you look from a distance to the other continent, you see it's a lot smaller than ours

{8:25:24} binTravkin : yes, I saw that border and posted, but didn't put up the thread
{8:26:25} binTravkin : and we thought we have little space..
{8:27:09} PJayTycy : what will we do about the barb sword ?
{8:28:07} PJayTycy : I suggest keeping the catapult and the maceman together
{8:28:23} PJayTycy : (which means 1 tile delay for the cat)
{8:28:47} PJayTycy : the workers can move away safely
{8:28:57} PJayTycy : the chuck can capture han
{8:29:07} PJayTycy : What do you think ?
{8:30:39} binTravkin : well, the cat is safe for this turn
{8:30:46} binTravkin : chuck should capture hun
{8:31:06} binTravkin : and workers move along the road north to mhasa and start chopping the first tile inside borders
{8:31:12} PJayTycy : so, you would move the cat forward as if nothing is wrong ?
{8:31:17} binTravkin : yes
{8:31:21} binTravkin : next turn we can see
{8:32:00} binTravkin : It is likely that the sword will move unto hill and then mace can take on it
{8:33:21} PJayTycy : ok
{8:33:37} PJayTycy : where do we build next road segment towards GS? in the woods or in the open ?
{8:41:15} PJayTycy : I think in the open will be a lot faster
{8:41:16} binTravkin : dunno
{8:41:31} PJayTycy : we will be able to start it this turn (instead of next turn)
{8:41:45} PJayTycy : + I think the road is already pre-built there by GS
{8:41:56} PJayTycy : We would finish it this turn
{8:42:28} binTravkin : it doesn't give us anything if we finish it this turn
{8:43:05} PJayTycy : if we build it in the woods, it will take 4 turns till it's finished
{8:43:06} binTravkin : I think it's better to finish it next turn and in the forest since then our 2 rear chucks can move straight into GS territory thus catching up with the stack
{8:43:16} binTravkin : no, it will take this and the next
{8:43:23} binTravkin : where do you get that number?
{8:44:19} PJayTycy : I thought it took 3 turns to build a road in forest, so this turn both workers move in the forest, then it takes 2 turns till it's ready
{8:44:27} PJayTycy : so, it's 3 turns instead of 4, sorry
{8:45:13} PJayTycy : "I think it's better to finish it next turn and in the forest since then our 2 rear chucks can move straight into GS territory thus catching up with the stack" ==> this won't be different if we build the road in the open
{8:45:14} binTravkin : hmm
{8:45:28} binTravkin : ah you mean in the open to west?
{8:47:39} PJayTycy : yes
{8:50:08} binTravkin : works for me
{8:50:19} binTravkin : and then we have one worker free
{8:50:50} binTravkin : what do you think about it going SE and doing a road there
{8:50:51} binTravkin : ?
{8:54:28} PJayTycy : I don't really see the benefit, but there's not really anything else to do, so for me that's ok
{8:55:13} binTravkin : the benefit would ability to pass the city
{8:55:31} binTravkin : if we run in trouble sieging it
{8:57:23} PJayTycy : I think everything is done then for this turn ?
{8:58:48} PJayTycy : tassagrad has a very big overflow : 118/60 done for the chokonu there
{8:58:55} binTravkin : well I didn't move the units yet
{8:59:02} binTravkin : those 2 stacks
{8:59:20} binTravkin : and I switched productions and citizens around in some cities
{9:02:22} PJayTycy : and another thing : the fogbust chuck near xi'an can move towards the iron hill (E-E)
{9:03:11} binTravkin : I'd rather wait until border expands
{9:03:22} binTravkin : othwerwise it leaves some black spots while moving
{9:03:50} PJayTycy : where ?
{9:04:26} binTravkin : to north of it
{9:04:55} PJayTycy : yes, you're right.
{9:05:06} PJayTycy : it's only for one turn, but perhaps better play safe
{9:05:45} binTravkin : yup, better play safe since we can't catch it if it appears there
{9:05:51} binTravkin : and horses are very important
{9:05:59} binTravkin : want to see the midturn I made ?
{9:06:20} PJayTycy : post it on the forum
{9:06:33} PJayTycy : or do you want to send on the end turn immediately?
{9:06:42} binTravkin : nah
{9:06:42} PJayTycy : either way, yes, I'll look at it

{9:06:59} binTravkin : I didn't move forward units yet
{9:07:13} binTravkin : I'll leave that to the moments before sending
{9:07:19} binTravkin : in case something comes up
{9:07:32} PJayTycy : what will you do with the explorer ?
{9:07:37} binTravkin : I left it there too
{9:07:55} binTravkin : once/if I move the chuck south, I can see where explorer can run
{9:08:12} binTravkin : do you have any idea of the army size of gs ?
{9:08:17} PJayTycy : you won't use it to look at the city ?
{9:08:56} PJayTycy : army size : no idea, but their powergraph starts rizing
{9:09:07} binTravkin : yes, well, but first move those who are slow and then the explorer
{9:09:31} binTravkin : I think the graph might have actually misled us
{9:09:43} PJayTycy : why?
{9:09:51} binTravkin : it goes down whenever you whip
{9:10:05} PJayTycy : a tiny bit
{9:10:06} binTravkin : and they must have been whipping a lot
{9:10:13} binTravkin : how much?
{9:10:18} PJayTycy : it's 1 power point for 2 people
{9:10:28} binTravkin : really?
{9:10:29} binTravkin : hmm
{9:11:29} PJayTycy : while their units probably have a value of 2 or 3 power points each
{9:11:46} binTravkin : lets check how much an ellie is
{9:12:00} PJayTycy : http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...79#post4479279
{9:12:27} PJayTycy : elephant = 4
{9:12:45} binTravkin : do you have turn still open /
{9:12:46} binTravkin : ?
{9:13:20} PJayTycy : no
{9:13:26} PJayTycy : I closed it to open your midturn
{9:13:41} PJayTycy : why ?
{9:14:16} binTravkin : graph
{9:14:22} binTravkin : ok I will post the mid
{9:25:25} binTravkin : http://apolyton.com/forums/showthrea...hreadid=177009
{9:29:19} PJayTycy : nice population numbers for domination victory

{9:29:30} PJayTycy : too bad there's that huge land% requirement
{9:29:46} binTravkin : that's why we need to crush GS

{9:32:34} PJayTycy : perhaps we should put up a sign where the barb swordsman was
{9:33:25} binTravkin : done
{9:33:31} binTravkin : check out the graph
{9:39:18} binTravkin : the difference between GS and us is like 100k soldiers
{9:39:26} binTravkin : that is 100 power points I guess
{9:41:12} PJayTycy : the GS power graph in the last few turns : (approx) -3, +3, +3, +7, +3
{9:42:26} PJayTycy : yes bt, that's 100 power points difference
{9:42:55} binTravkin : humm, so +16
{9:43:00} binTravkin : that could be 4 ellies
{9:43:05} binTravkin : if they only build those
{9:43:44} binTravkin : but could they have put those 4 in the forward city?
{9:44:20} PJayTycy : I think we will face mostly skirmishers
{9:45:12} PJayTycy : and warelephants
{9:45:37} binTravkin : haha

{9:45:58} binTravkin : there's difference of 2 between those

{9:46:34} PJayTycy : ?
{9:47:31} binTravkin : skirm is 4, ellie is 8

{9:47:54} binTravkin : and ellie is deadly vs knights whereas knights should crush skirms without problem
{9:49:00} PJayTycy : yes, but I think GS still has a lot of skirms left over, which will probably all be moved into their forward city, while their new units will be ellies
{9:49:22} binTravkin : yeah well I was thinking how much of their ellies will be in Taz city
{9:50:18} PJayTycy : I don't know, but, what we could do, is not attack from the north, but attack Taz from the hill south of it
{9:50:37} PJayTycy : that way we have forest+hill defense and we cut off their supply line for new units
{9:51:38} binTravkin : the question is how do we get there in time before their workers kill that forest ?
{9:52:16} PJayTycy : aha, we kill their workers

{9:53:01} binTravkin : they will move in there this same turn
{9:53:11} binTravkin : we can't manage to kill them before they chop
{9:53:21} binTravkin : even if we get to kill them in the end the hill will be bare
{9:53:39} PJayTycy : well, we'll see if it's possible in the next few turns...
{9:53:59} PJayTycy : it's just an option to keep in mind
{9:54:43} PJayTycy : if the city is defended too hard, it's at least better to cut of their supply lines while waiting on extra units for us
{9:56:31} binTravkin : so you think we should move along that mountain south
{9:56:42} binTravkin : instead of trying to descend upon the city now?
{9:57:13} PJayTycy : it depends how good the city is defended
{9:58:40} binTravkin : yeah well, that's why I thinking about the graph
{9:58:58} binTravkin : it doesn't even depend on how well it is defended
{9:59:21} binTravkin : since if it only has good defenders we can pass by and still blockade, but it depends on how many ellies are there
{9:59:40} binTravkin : i.e. how much offensive capability does it have
{9:59:43} binTravkin : ellies and cats that is
{9:59:59} PJayTycy : how many turns do we think they have ellies ?
{10:00:04} PJayTycy : 4? 5?
{10:00:30} binTravkin : lemme check
{10:04:16} binTravkin : they have it since 540AD
{10:04:22} binTravkin : which is 7 turns
{10:04:30} PJayTycy : so they can have a lot of ellies
{10:04:48} binTravkin : they didn't have any power graph growth since 3 turns though
{10:05:11} binTravkin : until last 3 turns that is
{10:05:27} PJayTycy : well 7 turns access to ellies, let's say 3-4 turns till the first ones are ready
{10:05:35} PJayTycy : that's about 3 turns ago then...
{10:06:51} binTravkin : yes, they cost 60h
{10:07:03} binTravkin : I guess we need ellies of our own soon

{10:08:34} binTravkin : it's 3 turns movement from the closest city
{10:08:39} binTravkin : 5 from the farthest for ellies
{10:08:57} PJayTycy : ellies are power = 8, +50% vs mounted ==> 12 strength vs our knights, who are 10 strength
{10:09:36} binTravkin : yes, but we should use knights to outmaneuver them
{10:09:47} binTravkin : or together with maces/chucks
{10:10:23} binTravkin : you think we should build something else instead of knights ?
{10:13:53} PJayTycy : not really
{10:14:29} PJayTycy : with our maces we'll have 8 vs 8
{10:14:56} binTravkin : chucks/cats can kill those ellies
{10:14:58} PJayTycy : it will depend, if the city has skirms and ellies, who will defend a mace attack ?
{10:15:00} binTravkin : by collateral
{10:15:17} binTravkin : a mace attack will likely be defended by ellie
{10:16:13} PJayTycy : do ellies get defense bonuses ?
{10:16:26} binTravkin : nope
{10:16:48} PJayTycy : so, it should be possible to attack the city I think...
{10:16:52} binTravkin : so they would be fighting 1:1 or with slight bonus for maces (if combat II or city attack)
{10:17:07} binTravkin : yeah, what I'm afraid of is that they have 4 ellies and a cat
{10:17:15} PJayTycy : first use our chucks (mainly for collateral) and then some maces
{10:17:16} binTravkin : then we can kill one of our stacks with some luck
{10:17:26} binTravkin : rr they can kill
{10:17:58} PJayTycy : I expect slightly more than 4 ellies and 1 cat
{10:18:09} binTravkin : 4 ellies, cat, 4 skirms
{10:18:13} binTravkin : something like that
{10:18:26} binTravkin : ok, even 5 ellies and 2 cars
{10:18:32} binTravkin : but that just reinforces my point
{10:18:47} PJayTycy : do you think they will attack our chuck-stack ?
{10:18:59} binTravkin : I guess
{10:19:14} binTravkin : it is smaller and the units are of weaker class
{10:20:09} PJayTycy : we have 6 chucks and 3 maces in total there, with 2 chucks coming 1 turn later and the sea units (chuck + mace) coming 2 turns later
{10:20:40} binTravkin : yes, if we decide to move around the 2 rear chucks will catch up next turn
{10:20:43} binTravkin : with the rear stack
{10:20:52} binTravkin : so it will be two stacks 4 and 7
{10:21:06} PJayTycy : so, in ellies vs maces, they most probably have the advantage in number of units
{10:21:44} PJayTycy : ah well, we'll see
{10:21:49} PJayTycy : I have to leave now
{10:21:53} PJayTycy : see you later
{10:21:54} binTravkin : ok cya

**binTravkin** · May 5, 2008, 12:49

Ok, finished it up:
- moved the military units south along the mountain as discussed in turn chat (it is safer since doesn't expose our stacks to direct over-road attack from GS city by elephants, which they are almost definitely having)
- changed Xin Guangzhou production to Forge to capture an extra whip bundle into Library (2 ducks with 1 shot).

Next turn we have to remember to optimize Hong Kong - one of it's citizens is allocated for ocean although there is a sea tile free.

Some statistics:
Our GDP = 90, 2nd place (GS) = 49
Our Mfg goods = 101, 2nd place (Mercs) = 61
Our Crop yield = 161, 2nd place (Mercs) = 77

We should negotiate with Horde and offer some trade for their cash (~180 g).
What we can trade to them is Alphabet, Calendar, Currency, Machinery, Meditation and Polytheism

Attached Files

chairman yang ad-0680_mid.civ4savedgame (190.3 KB, 48 views)

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