250 Bc

[binTravkin]

Some missed points about GL:
1.We lack a little over 130 hammers, which is 6 turns to have the GL.
2.Our modifier is 100% - good enough for some coin

We've been building GL for 15+ turns already which is roughly 3/4 of the planned time. It would be silly to cancel the project now.

i cannot load game on this comp

Install that dll snoopy provided + c4dg colors mod.

placing those two miners on coastal tiles, to grow to size 8 a little earlier.

For most of the time we worked only one mine, the 1-3-0 one, thus the difference in growth was minimal. We will be 8 pop in 225BC

when at size 8, instead of using slavery, stagnating growth and using two specialists?

We need National Epic first for this to be truly effective.
There are also a bunch of things that can be build easily and efficiently with slavery as we get quite a modifier for whipping. Some who come to mind are monastery, galley, temple, courthouse.

About Tassagrad - it's is getting a farm soon, so that would solve it's food problems.
For now it's building the Heroic Epic, which needs hammers more than food.

[Mart]

Originally posted by binTravkin
It would be silly to cancel the project now.

I agree, do not cancel when in 3/4

Install that dll snoopy provided + c4dg colors mod.

Thank you for hint, though I meant, the comp is an oldie + 3d graphics problems due to overheating GPU chip...

[binTravkin]

Well, if BtS works for you, vanilla should too.

[Mart]

i use 2 comps - new one has civ, older suffers badly with civ, so i do not use it there - just for typing or 2D programs...

[-SafaN-]

turn is there, can someone peek in and see if we have lost the GL?

i can do the turn in about 5 hours

[binTravkin]

I will

[binTravkin]

Update:
There is no clear sign what Mercs have used Archimedes on, but they have a score jump, which is 425. Since they have also whipped at least one pop in their 2nd biggest city, it could be that they have used the Engineer for Machinery tech.

[binTravkin]

Things done:
- Mhasa set to scout
- Healthy chuks moved south, one onto rice farm to pillage it next turn
- Axe in Bananapolis killed a barb on the cow with ease (100% chance)
- worker near Bananapolis started chopping
- worker near Hong Kong moved on forest to chop
- fishing boat made an improvement near Hong Kong
- changed one Beijing citizen back to 1-3-0 mine
- changed one Xian citizen to 1-3-0 mine to finish worker in 3 turns not 4
- scout moved NE, one move left (now turnchatting about this)

Other things:
- 3 turns until GP
- 4 turns until Heroic Epic in Tassagrad
- 6 turns until Calendar
- 6 turns until GL if we risk adding chance to GE pop (by raising a GE), 7 turns until GL if we don't risk.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by binTravkin
We need National Epic first for this to be truly effective.
There are also a bunch of things that can be build easily and efficiently with slavery as we get quite a modifier for whipping.

You mean getting an extra bundle for free? Whipping one pop can give 60 hammers and one unhappiness. One unhappiness means we have one less worker/specialist for ten turns. So slavery is only good if the whipped hammers are more than what you could get from having an extra citizen for ten turns. Let's say that's an engineer. After all boni are applied IIRC that's 3 hammers, 3.75 science and 3 GPP. *10= 30 hammers, 37.5 hammers and 30 GPP. Personally I consider that slightly better than 60 hammers.

There are other situations where slavery might be slightly better (eg would have to calculate whipping two pops for 90 hammers but making sure one pop can immediately grow back: +90h, one unhappiness and -34 food or something), but in any case I think one cannot just assume slavery is always better. it should be considered at a case-by-case basis.

[binTravkin]

You mean getting an extra bundle for free?

Yes, those things are cheap and it can be organized to get a double bundle whip.

For monastery whipping it would mean we get 60h and ~+50b over the course of those 10 angriness turns, which seems better than the benefit from engineer.
For Galley it seems rather immeasurable, thus I'm kinda reluctant to invest into it.
Caravel is something else - you're certain to get somewhere, but again you cannot measure the benefit, so the ability to compare with specialist is very limited.

It would actually be very long time if we tried to build our infrastructure without whipping.
Producing is better for wonders as we get big modifiers, but still we need to whip them to ensure we get them asap. For example Library will be whipped by 4 pop, but it will immediately add 2 pop back (free specialists) and if we count that we deny that 2 pop to someone, we've practically lost nothing.

In any case, if we want specialists we must decide what Great Person we need the most next.
Scientist or Prophet would be cool, while we don't at the moment need another Engineer. Merchant and Artist would be of use too, but less than the two first (though we need only one Prophet).


Scout moved unto the hill south from horse - there's good visibility and better scouting coverage from there (should lift the fog right north of horses).

[-SafaN-]

can i ask to wait with the turn until all the active players have agreed? (yes i mean myself ofcourse)

i would go for the one turn shaving of GL build time, even if it contaminates our gpp pool

its perfectly possible we both lose the GL with one turn and we still get an GE ...

[N35t0r]

I say we take that extra turn.

[Lacero]

I'd rather take the 10 extra beakers from getting the specialists a turn early over a 3% chance for a GE.

[Mart]

10 extra beakers