475 Bc

[binTravkin]

Yeah, there was no need to switch production away from almost ready missionary. Barbarians rarely walk in straight lines and even if they do we can have archer in 2 turns.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by binTravkin
Well, they can't have galleys - they lack Sailing and a coastal city.

You want to sell them Sailing.

Anyway, while I agree about getting Courthouses asap, I don't see how Wealth is better than anything else we could build. Personally I work from the rule of thumb that 1 hammer = 2 commerce. Getting only half a gold from one hammer is just throwing away your production capacity.

[Kataphraktoi]

I doubt they are going to attack their (apparently?) only ally and trading partner.

I didnt realize you were switching production for the chuk. I read that as meaning the missionary was done and what would be built next.

[Kataphraktoi]

Originally posted by Maniac
WTF Wealth!?! Sounds extremely inefficient to me.

I don't understand the obsession with keeping the science rate so high at all times. Why not build an extra settler & garrison now? Sure, that will cause a drop in our surplus commerce production, but if we are soon to have courthouses, that will only be temporary, and be advantageous in the long run. Fast colonization of the entire continent should be the priority IMO if the Banana are defeated. Personally I always expand until my science is at 50%.

Well, i tend to agree with this. If i have good riverbed terrain like inland sea, i ussualy REX to 20-30%

[Impaler[WrG]]

We clearly need further debate on use of Wealth and fortunately have 8 more turns before we need to be fully decided. We might go with only one city on wealth or other intermitent usage senarios as a compromise. I see our options as..

Full wealth in Tass/Xian when Currency is avalible untill Col is completed, maximizing Sci slider for fastest possible research:
Advantages: likeliest scenario for getting religion, earliest access to Courthouses
Disadvantages: less unit (scout, worker, garrison) productions in the two cities most effective at building them. less building production as well


Production as normal in Tass and Xian untill Col, more units and building production:
Advantages: continuous and rapid production of units on demand such as missionaries, scouts, workers, garrisons. Possible Marketplace in Tass to prepare for Shrine and running of high gold rates, also libraries and granaries.
Disadvantages: Unit cap possibly exceeded, potential low return on building investments, slower research rate and access to courthouse.


Lets get some hard numbers on what our maintenance costs will be over the next ~20 turns and how our financial situation will evolve under various slider percentages and how long CoL will take as a result as acceleration of CoL is the main benefit of the first scenario we need to now how much it is, if its 3 or less turns of acceleration I'd be doubtful of the usefulness. 5 or more and I'd be in favor, 7 or more and I'd be strongly in favor.

[binTravkin]

Anyway, while I agree about getting Courthouses asap, I don't see how Wealth is better than anything else we could build. Personally I work from the rule of thumb that 1 hammer = 2 commerce. Getting only half a gold from one hammer is just throwing away your production capacity.

We can build a cottage not far from Xian and have it work it, to be more efficient.

The problem is that those cities are practically out of builds.
They could do Granaries, but that's even less useful.
One of them could build Market, but it will only be useful if we pop a prophet.
One of them could build a Heroic Epic, but it'd be for an inflated cost as marble is not available yet. Heroic Epic would be the best bet actually, although there is no immediate use either.

We could build one or two settlers with a rule that we don't settle them until after CoL.
They could do also extra workers to prepare ground for the new cities, but we must watch to not get over unit limit.

[binTravkin]

Lets get some hard numbers on what our maintenance costs will be over the next ~20 turns and how our financial situation will evolve under various slider percentages and how long CoL will take as a result as acceleration of CoL is the main benefit of the first scenario we need to now how much it is, if its 3 or less turns of acceleration I'd be doubtful of the usefulness. 5 or more and I'd be in favor, 7 or more and I'd be strongly in favor.

I'm thinking it will be somewhere between 2 and 4 turns sooner while running wealth.

[binTravkin]

The maths are as follows:
Currently, being at 100%, CoL tooltip says 10 turns.
After we have Currency that will drop to 8 turns (pessimistic).
Then, we will also have +50% commerce amount due to 2-3 new citizens working coast in Beijing and 2 new citizens working coast in Hong Kong, which will drop the CoL research time to 6 turns (pessimistic).
Now running at 70% (the likely average rate with plunder), we'll be done at 8.5 turns, which will likely be down to 8 turns due to growth during research.
If we run wealth, we'll be able to sustain 90% rate, which will be 6-7 turns, likely 6 turns in the end due to growth and the prognosis being pessimistic.

So a 2-3 turn boost is best we can get.

[binTravkin]

Check the screenie at post #41

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=168039&pagenumber=2

Apparently they are starving the city to 1 pop.

[binTravkin]

I reviewed foreign intelligence and it appears that none of our opponents has Literature yet.

Mercs have researched 2 Era2 techs, only the latter of which could've been Alphabet, and since then appear only trading techs. That is, they have received sudden +3 tech points just 4 turns after researching the last tech. It is possible they popped an era2 tech, but I'd regard such possibility as extremely unlikely.

Sarantium has only researched 1 era2 tech and that is last thing they research since 750BC, which means 11 turns without single researched tech, which means they must be researching some era 2 tech now and are soon to finish it.

[binTravkin]

I opened the turn, and checked a few things:
1.on Heroic Epic - it costs 200h, so it'd be no problem to make it, Tassagrad would make it in 8 turns, BUT, it gives only +4 culture, making Tassagrad +5 and it needs to fill a bar of 100 culture (some 75 at the time), so 15 more turns to go until it expands AND we don't have a lvl 4 unit. The closest is the chuck at Bananapolis being 8/10.

2.On unit upkeep - we can upkeep 3 more military units and 13 more non-military units and 4 units out of our territory.

[N35t0r]

How far from a MGL are we?

[binTravkin]

MGL?

[-SafaN-]

we play vanilla, no Military Great Leaders there ...

[binTravkin]

d00h