525bc

[binTravkin]

Todo:

- promote chuks, axe to heal them, set to heal where not full strenght
- set Beijing to monastery (while we don't have Literature)
- spread yangism in Hong Kong
- use one of the workers near Beijing to finish watermill
- move other worker near Beijing north - must check what should it do now, probably chop near Hong Kong
- continue rear unit movement towards Banana
- careful recon with scout should see where it can move avoiding danger

[binTravkin]

Sightings:
- Banana built a chariot in cap
- By having 2 citizens @Beijing be scientists, we can have Literature next turn

Turn report:
- Judaism spread in Hong Kong (missionary)
- Fishing boats built near Hong Kong
- One worker near Beijing continues on watermill
- Chuk Noris is granted Combat I promotion and heals to 4.6/6, suggest granting next promotion before next battle
- Chuk Jeger moves towards Banana cap
- Home Guard moves towards Banana cap (can attack in 2 turns)
- The Lumberers (axe in mash) is set to heal - 1 turn left
- Beijing set to Yangist monastery

Suggestions:
- move the other worker near Beijing into grassland hill and build a mine there for Xian (Xian is currently not optimal working one 1-2-0 where it could work 1-3-0) OR move that worker into Xian to help either Hong Kong or the worker who's hooking up wheat (I consider this unnecessary as Xian is gonna finish a worker next turn, which can do just the same).
- move Chuk Norris toward Beijing on the same tile as Home Guard. That way he don't need to upgrade yet and we need him to finish off Banana cap
- move the captured worker on the same tile as Home Guard and build a road there. Having a road from Banana cap down to the river twist next to Splitsville border will allow us to get our chuks south very quickly (mere 6 turns from cap to Splitsville walls).

Questions:
- Do we push for Literature then (make effort to have it next turn)?
- What to do with scout?

[binTravkin]

Situation near Bananapolis

[binTravkin]

Beijing, making the effort for Literature

[binTravkin]

The beautiful lighthouse of Beijing

[PJayTycy]

nice screenshots !

So, we have one chuck (Chuck Jeger) next to banana cap already.
The other 2 chucks (Home Guard and Chuck Noris) will be next to it next turn.

That means, in 2 turns we can attack with 3 chucks. Next turn, after our 2 other chucks arrive, we could already kill one unit with Chuck Jeger.


so in short:
=> about your suggestions Chuck Noris and the captured worker moving towards Home Guard : OK
=> pushing for literature in Being : OK


scout : maybe move SE into the forest ?

[binTravkin]

SE into forest could be dangerous - there was an axe nearby last turn.
I'd go NE - doubt anyone would attack towards there and there's a nice tile between the scout and horses then, from where he can return if danger spotted.

[PJayTycy]

With them now building Chariots mostly, I guess they will defend the horses as good as possible.

[binTravkin]

If they have Archery, they don't need to.

[PJayTycy]

Without midturn, I also opened the turn we received (didn't move anything though, just checking things).

Bananas don't have archery yet.


About the workers near Being who finished their chopping :
=> You moved one of them towards the tile west of Being to continue the watermill. That's 4 turns left and will change that tile from 1-1-1 to 1-2-1. (food-hammer-gold)

=> The other workers :

move the other worker near Beijing into grassland hill and build a mine there for Xian (Xian is currently not optimal working one 1-2-0 where it could work 1-3-0) OR move that worker into Xian to help either Hong Kong or the worker who's hooking up wheat (I consider this unnecessary as Xian is gonna finish a worker next turn, which can do just the same).

Xian also has access to a plains hill. Mining that one will give 0-4-0. If you used the western worker for the windmill, the eastern one will be able to start on that mine equally fast.

[edit]Sorry about this, it's not possible to work a 0-4-0 tile in Xian, we need the 1 food from the 1-3-0 [/edit]

[PJayTycy]

some chat between impaler and myself about the order of attack in Bananapolis :

[22:40:05] Impaler[WrG] : whats currently in Bananaopolis?
[22:40:12] Impaler[WrG] : Ax and Charriot and what else?
[22:40:16] PJayTycy : warrior
[22:40:44] Impaler[WrG] : and pop is down to two so virtualy impossible to build anything else
[22:41:08] PJayTycy : charriots are cheap... chopping a forest somewhere could still give them one
[22:41:33] Impaler[WrG] : and idea ware their workers fleed too?
[22:42:08] PJayTycy : I'd guess the woods around splitsville
[22:43:26] Impaler[WrG] : so only 2 combats of any challenge in Bananopolis but that last warrior could delay us a turn
[22:44:01] Impaler[WrG] : if the Chuck in the forest takes out one unit next turn and the other moves adjacent
[22:44:15] PJayTycy : we have 3 chucks
[22:44:31] PJayTycy : only the first battle (chuck vs axe) will be a close tie
[22:44:31] Impaler[WrG] : then the following turn the strgler can kill another unit and the first one can easily kill the remaining warrior
[22:44:46] PJayTycy : we have 1 chuck next to the city in the woods currently
[22:45:03] PJayTycy : the turn after that we have 2 units coming
[22:45:04] Impaler[WrG] : you think the odds will be close?
[22:45:19] PJayTycy : I did pretty extensive math on it
[22:45:30] Impaler[WrG] : whats the break down
[22:45:41] PJayTycy : we'll have 85% chance of winning against the axe with a combat1 promoted axe
[22:45:44] PJayTycy : *chuck
[22:46:18] Impaler[WrG] : that Chuck in forest is only combat one cause its first battle for him?
[22:46:40] PJayTycy : However, the 2 chucks who will arrive later can have 2 promotions, so should be able to get better odds
[22:46:45] PJayTycy : yes
[22:47:31] Impaler[WrG] : If we used Shock on Noris he would probaly have the charriot oas prefered defender
[22:47:38] PJayTycy : You think so?
[22:47:58] Impaler[WrG] : well what dose your math say?
[22:48:18] Impaler[WrG] : charriots 4 with no fortify modifier, but they get culture correct?
[22:48:43] Impaler[WrG] : 5.6 with 40% culture
[22:48:57] PJayTycy : the axe will get : +40 (city) +15 (fortify) -75 (chuck vs melee) ==> -20 %
[22:49:16] PJayTycy : That means strength 4
[22:49:51] Impaler[WrG] : so yes I think the Chariot would be prefered defender vs a Shock
[22:50:05] PJayTycy : The chariot will also have strength 4
[22:50:07] Impaler[WrG] : and actualy -85% for combat I as well
[22:50:21] PJayTycy : nope
[22:50:37] PJayTycy : combat 1 adds to the attacker because it's equal against all defenders
[22:50:44] Impaler[WrG] : 50% +25% +10% ?
[22:51:04] Impaler[WrG] : oh yes Never mind
[22:51:28] PJayTycy : so, we will have 6.60, the chariot and axe will have 4
[22:51:42] Impaler[WrG] : charriots dont get culture defence?
[22:52:02] PJayTycy : no, see the detailed war log from 550 BC
[22:52:10] Impaler[WrG] : though they just dont get fortify but all units recive cultural defence bonus
[22:52:40] PJayTycy : no combat modifiers at all in the chuck vs charriot war in 550 BC
[22:53:14] Impaler[WrG] : ok so what promotion do you prefer for the Noris?
[22:53:59] Impaler[WrG] : He will go to around 5.5 strength and if rushed right to Bananopolis wont heal any higher
[22:54:50] PJayTycy : I'd want the full health chuck with combat 1 + shock promotions to fight the axe
[22:55:32] PJayTycy : I'll check which unit gets chosen if the defensive strength is a tie
[22:55:37] Impaler[WrG] : can we be sure to get the ax as the defender, if we over do it we get charriot and waste the promotion
[22:56:57] Impaler[WrG] : Combat II or Drill wouldn't flip the defender but would still be usefull
[22:57:49] PJayTycy : Can't we promote a chuck to force him towards the chariot?
[22:57:52] PJayTycy : I guess not ?
[22:58:01] Impaler[WrG] : And I think the HomeGuard should take medic when Bananopolis is taken so as to speed up the healing of all the chucks for the final push south
[22:59:03] PJayTycy : Why not Chuck Noris ? HomeGuard will be our best attacker (full health + 2 promotions)
[22:59:11] Impaler[WrG] : our two elite Chucks are unlikly to earn any more promotions after Bananopolis and may be badly damaged from it
[22:59:46] Impaler[WrG] : I mean after Bananopolis attack thats what the second promotion should be
[22:59:59] Impaler[WrG] : HG is at only one promote now is he not?
[23:04:38] PJayTycy : current chuck state :
Chuck Jeger : 100 HP : has combat 1, no promotions left (4 XP)
Home Guard : 100 HP : has no promotions, 2 promotions left (6 XP)
Chuck Noris : 77 HP : has combat 1, 1 promotion left (7 XP)
[23:05:08] PJayTycy : Chuck Jeger is next to the city now, Home Guard and Chuck Noris will be next to the city next turn
[23:05:18] Impaler[WrG] : thanks
[23:06:17] Impaler[WrG] : so Jeger could attack first but city wouldn't fall untill the next two also attack to kill all three units
[23:06:35] PJayTycy : also isBetterDefenderThan() returns : ((iOurDefense > iTheirDefense) || ((iOurDefense == iTheirDefense) && isBeforeUnitCycle(this, pDefender)))
[23:06:56] Impaler[WrG] : their might be slight advantage if Jeger can kill the ax when it has slightly less fortifying but that seems unlikley
[23:07:28] PJayTycy : yes, that's right, plus, he would be vulnerable to counter attack. There's 40% chance he'll have less than 50HP after the attack
[23:08:31] Impaler[WrG] : so you prefer to wait till all three are in position and attack simultaniously with all three to take the city
[23:08:44] PJayTycy : yes
[23:11:11] PJayTycy : in "isBeforeUnitCycle", civ4 compares (1) owner,(2) air/land/see unit, (3) base strength
[23:12:09] PJayTycy : Base Strength for the axe is bigger than for the chariot, so if their strenght is equal, we'll get the axe
[23:12:22] Impaler[WrG] : so the city should be taken with only a slim chance of lossing a Chuck
[23:12:28] PJayTycy : yes
[23:13:38] Impaler[WrG] : the follow up charriot should be a piece of cake considering damage it will have sustained and that we can attack it with a combat II unit
[23:14:47] Impaler[WrG] : then its a quick heal and march back to Mash, hopefully some more road is ready by that time to speed it up
[23:14:52] PJayTycy : Home Guard + combat 1 + Shock => should take out the axe without problem
Chuck Noris + combat 1 + medic => should take out the chariot
Chuck Jeger + combat 1 => should take out the warrior, gain a promotion and move in the city
[23:15:01] Impaler[WrG] : then Southward for the coup de gra
[23:15:28] PJayTycy : I thought you wanted a medic instead of a combat II
[23:16:01] PJayTycy : or would you give medic to Chuck Jeger and move all chucks out of the city after conquest ?
[23:16:09] Impaler[WrG] : If you think the charriot win is easy then yes Medic could save us several turns later on
[23:16:51] Impaler[WrG] : It would ofcourse depend on damage levels but I'd consider emptying the city to send all three south
[23:17:05] Impaler[WrG] : and especialy if we losse one we should consider it
[23:17:20] PJayTycy : Do you know how much HP granting a promotion gives to a unit ?
[23:17:52] Impaler[WrG] : half of difference between current and max strength
[23:19:10] PJayTycy : so we'd go from 76 to 88
[23:20:42] PJayTycy : 0.88 * 6.6 = ~ 5.8 strength for Chuck Noris, against a Chariot which might have collateral damage, let's say 3.68 (same as previous chariot)
[23:21:37] PJayTycy : 5.8 strength is pretty close to the 6 strength Home Guard got when he was attacking the chariot in The Mash. Combat odds then where 98%
[23:22:35] PJayTycy : so I guess we don't need the combat 2 promotion on Chuck Noris to defeat the chariot

The only thing undecided is the scout, but bt is right, a few turns ago we ran away because an axeman was moving out of the city. So NE as bt suggests is probably safer.

[PJayTycy]

With BT offline and no savegame posted, I played this turn from the start, doing everything exactly as BT posted here.

I moved the scout NE and found the 2 banana workers running to splitsville. There are lots of forest around there, so they can chop pretty fast. They can have one chariot every 2 turns by chopping and a chariot every 3.5 turns by normal hammer input. So, every 4 turns they could have 3 chariots in splitsville. Our forces will be at splitsville in 10 turns at best, so that means they could have somewhere between 6 and 8 chariots over there by the time we arrive.




Here attached is the endturn.

For next turn:
=> Literature is finished, so we could switch to Great Library in Being (or work boat, see below).
=> Research should probably go back to Currency (which we were researching before we switched to Literature)
=> Tassagrad built a chuck, we should name it and then move it towards the mash, where it will be able to join the army moving south (total forces = 5 chucks + 1 axe)
=> What will we build in Tassagrad next ? A missionary to spread religion to The Mash ? An other Chuck as backup 3 turns behind our main army ?
=> Tassagrad had a border expansion (its first)
=> Xian built a worker, an other worker is partly done with a road. Xian will have a border expansion next turn, bringing the wheat in our borders. These workers can be used to hook it up, but it's in no city's fat cross, so it would only be useful for the +1 health)
=> Hong Kong will have a border expansion in 8 turns, in the ideal case we will have a second work boat for the fish. This won't be possible though, because our both coastal cities are busy (being=>great library, hongkong => granary). Consider changing one of these 2. Being could build one in 3 turns if we go back to hammer-heavy.
=> The other option, for the last 2 points, is to have the 2 workers move towards HongKong and chop the 2 forests next to it to complete the granary and a work boat.

[PJayTycy]

foreign intelligence is pretty short this time :

AC +13 points : 449 => 462
research Literature : era-2 tech : 28 tech => 30 tech

GS +6 points : 335 => 341
whipping grow back in third city : 5+4+2 pop => 5+4+3 pop

Vox -12 points : 237 => 225
1-pop whip in 2 cities : 3+2 pop => 2+1 pop