Announcement

**Lacero** · May 26, 2007, 07:48

Re: 775 Bc

bananas don't have archery, so i think our reaction on their trade was a bit over the top. i don't think we need a new shedule.

we're still not in the top 5 cities

I'm glad some of you kept your cool

**Impaler[WrG]** · May 26, 2007, 10:36

2 commerce in all our cities is nice that will help narrow the GS lead in commerce.

Bananas might be researching archery themselves, if so they probably wont have to for another turn or two and thus will have that much less time to make defenses

**binTravkin** · May 26, 2007, 11:19

Bananas might be researching archery themselves

Means GS are being very cautious wanting to preserve good relations and keep us down at the same time..

The turn has arrived, i'm not gonna play it tho, cause i don't wanna screw up like last time

You did well enough, everyone makes mistakes time by time. I have done at least three too.

we're still not in the top 5 cities

Damn, it only delays any RP we could have, everyone knows anyway that we are the builders.

Gonna open and try to play the turn now.

**-SafaN-** · May 26, 2007, 11:36

btw when is planned to change civics and religion? the turn after the settler is built?

**binTravkin** · May 26, 2007, 12:28

Yes, after it's built and before it's settled (so we have some 3 turns to choose from).

I hit the endturn and we reached top5 as the 5th place at last. Does it give any RP possibilities to us?

Scout heading into Banana territory revealed third city being 2pop and guarded by a warrior. No improvements encountered.

Axe escorting our worker moved NE to maybe detect warrior, but didn't see a trace.

Worker he was escorting started work on a road east (on the coast).

Worker who finished the mine near Tassagrad was set to build road shortcut between Tassagrad and Xian - first tile right west from the finished mine, second on that hill east from Xian.
Should cut travel time by 2 turns, which is by half.

The warrior north checked out situation at the spot of 4th city sighting no barbarians.

I also noticed Beijing has 2 more choppable forests apart from the one being chopped, which means we can chop in GL (invest 164+ out of 200 hammers by chopping) quite quickly.

We also made an Open Borders agreement with Bananas which raised our GNP by 3 giving all our cities a 2-gold link with Banana cities.

Tech: started on Currency, 13 turns to go.

Our first chukos have been trained!

**binTravkin** · May 26, 2007, 12:30

Notes for next turn and diplomacy in between:

1. A message should be sent to Bananas saying our scout is heading south to replace the one who got killed by barbarian.

2. We should check how much time does it take to build a road in desert. I have a suspicion it took 1 turn longer than normal..

**Impaler[WrG]** · May 26, 2007, 14:12

An excellent turn chat over Skype Instant messenger was conducted, here is the full log, in the future once everyone has microphones we might want to do these wholly by voice and record them.

[8:19:52 AM] binTravkin: hi everyone
[8:20:25 AM] PJayTycy: hello again
[8:20:28 AM] Impaler: hey their
[8:20:36 AM] binTravkin: there's an issue in this turn
[8:20:43 AM] binTravkin: that should be decided quickly
[8:21:00 AM] binTravkin: the worker who finished mine is not really needed in road building
[8:21:11 AM] Impaler: ok I think the three of us would constiture quorum for such a matter
[8:21:22 AM] PJayTycy: why do you think so ?
[8:21:40 AM] binTravkin: cause in 10 turns when our army arrives at the target
[8:21:48 AM] binTravkin: the road would be done by that single worker
[8:21:55 AM] binTravkin: that's one reason
[8:22:19 AM] Impaler: this is the worker that finished a second mine near Xian correct?
[8:22:24 AM] PJayTycy: yes
[8:22:33 AM] binTravkin: and the other - if we build it too fast, Bananas might take notice and even attempt to destroy it - destroying road in neutral territory aint anything one can take offense of
[8:22:45 AM] binTravkin: near Tassagrad
[8:22:48 AM] PJayTycy: well, the last tile of road, on the hill where our scout is now, will take more than 2 turns
[8:22:55 AM] binTravkin: hm
[8:23:10 AM] binTravkin: ok, I'll open the turn and come back with some data
[8:23:33 AM] PJayTycy: firstly : the worker can not move on it and start in the same turn secondly : a road on a hill takes 3 turns instead of 2
[8:23:37 AM] Impaler: what about a road between Tassgrad and Xian to speed up Xians troops reaching Bananas?
[8:24:00 AM] PJayTycy: so, that makes 12 turns for our road to end upon the hill
[8:24:35 AM] PJayTycy: ofcourse, it's still unsure for me wheter we will be building that road towards the capital (as originally planned) or towards the third city
[8:25:04 AM] binTravkin: no, better towards third
[8:25:07 AM] binTravkin: let's take it first
[8:25:13 AM] Impaler: can you grab a screenshoot
[8:25:20 AM] binTravkin: yes, loading
[8:25:55 AM] PJayTycy: I don't see the banana warrior anywhere btw.
[8:26:43 AM] Impaler: humm any idea ware it might be?
[8:27:33 AM] PJayTycy: either dead or he moved north
[8:29:07 AM] Impaler: So I hear we can do a jump in jump out with our scout, I'm not sure ware this is though, what could we learn from doing it Do we want to alternativly plung the scout in completly Would that invite nanas to return the favor
[8:29:26 AM] binTravkin: possibly
[8:29:38 AM] binTravkin: but their warrior is moving way slower
[8:30:35 AM] PJayTycy: bananas can see our scout, even if it's just outside their borders
[8:30:38 AM] Impaler: so this in and out manuver can show us whats in the Nana 3rd city?
[8:30:50 AM] binTravkin sent file "road.jpg" to members of this chat
[8:30:54 AM] binTravkin: here, a screenie
[8:31:05 AM] binTravkin: you should be able to open with your browser
[8:31:16 AM] Impaler: thanks
[8:31:23 AM] binTravkin: you see the road
[8:31:28 AM] binTravkin: I drew one tile too much
[8:31:36 AM] binTravkin: into Banana territory
[8:31:43 AM] PJayTycy: that road will indeed only take 8 more turns to complete
[8:31:50 AM] binTravkin: yes
[8:31:51 AM] Impaler: ok so we want 4 tiles of road right up to their border
[8:31:56 AM] binTravkin: and it goes like this
[8:32:31 AM] PJayTycy: bt, could you move the axe north-east, instead of guarding the worker this time?
[8:32:42 AM] PJayTycy: we might see where the banana warrior si
[8:32:55 AM] Impaler: I think the scout would need to move onto the hill NW of the 3rd city to see its contents and would definatly be seen
[8:33:06 AM] binTravkin: next turn we finish chuko and 1st tile in 4 turns we have 3 chukos amassed and 2 axes available and 3 tiles finished. they start moving (the troops, traverse most part of the road in 2 turns and meanwhile last tile is done, so that Bananas dont manage to break it up
[8:33:13 AM] binTravkin: yes
[8:33:18 AM] binTravkin: I'll move the axe then
[8:33:21 AM] binTravkin: agreed?
[8:33:27 AM] binTravkin: impaler?
[8:33:54 AM] Impaler: North East to see more, yes that sounds good
[8:34:56 AM] binTravkin: warrior's not there

[8:35:07 AM] Impaler: by the way its 'ok' for the road to zig a bit north
[8:35:31 AM] binTravkin: yes but Im thinking is it necessary
[8:35:38 AM] binTravkin: it will be easier to detect it then
[8:35:44 AM] binTravkin: what do you think?
[8:36:18 AM] PJayTycy: how so?
[8:36:32 AM] binTravkin: the warrior must be somewhere to north
[8:36:47 AM] PJayTycy: honestly though, I don't really care if the road goes NE-SE or E-E
[8:36:49 AM] binTravkin: if it comes back south, it'll be one turn sooner detected if it goes north
[8:37:03 AM] Impaler: humm good point
[8:37:12 AM] binTravkin: so let's build it straight easT?
[8:37:35 AM] Impaler: that probably is the safest way
[8:37:47 AM] binTravkin: so, what about scout?
[8:37:54 AM] binTravkin: SE and back?
[8:37:59 AM] Impaler: thats tricky
[8:38:08 AM] PJayTycy: I'd move it on the hill next to third city
[8:38:35 AM] PJayTycy: Acting as if we have nothing to hide
[8:39:07 AM] binTravkin: hm
[8:39:18 AM] binTravkin: or on that near the cap?
[8:39:26 AM] binTravkin: straight NE
[8:40:26 AM] Impaler: the hill SW/S would show us the 3rd city
[8:40:30 AM] PJayTycy: we won't see the capital, from that tile. If the bananas don't like our unit in their territory, we can bail out next turn while still having seen at least the third city
[8:40:31 AM] binTravkin: yes
[8:40:38 AM] binTravkin: PJay
[8:40:40 AM] binTravkin: wait
[8:40:47 AM] binTravkin: why wont see/
[8:40:50 AM] binTravkin: it's a hill
[8:40:55 AM] binTravkin: it shows 2 tiles away
[8:41:15 AM] binTravkin: cap is E-SE from it
[8:41:20 AM] PJayTycy: not with forest in between (I think)
[8:42:02 AM] binTravkin: well, forest is not realy between
[8:42:23 AM] PJayTycy: Look at the territory down south near GS. I'm pretty sure we've been on the iron hill, but we can't see the tile N-NE
[8:42:23 AM] binTravkin: it's to E from that tile is grassland (see screenie)
[8:42:37 AM] binTravkin: I'll check
[8:43:09 AM] binTravkin: and now
[8:43:17 AM] binTravkin: if you're looking at that iron hill
[8:43:21 AM] binTravkin: go a bit west
[8:43:25 AM] binTravkin: and there's a desert hill
[8:43:29 AM] binTravkin: see 2 tiles south of it
[8:43:36 AM] binTravkin: the tile is revealed
[8:44:41 AM] PJayTycy: I can't follow, which dessert hill are you talking about
[8:44:54 AM] binTravkin: too poor there aint any coordinates
[8:45:00 AM] binTravkin: I'll take a screen
[8:46:35 AM] binTravkin sent file "tile.jpg" to members of this chat
[8:47:11 AM] Impaler: oh that hill
[8:47:37 AM] binTravkin: if you turn the cap hill area
[8:47:45 AM] binTravkin: by 90' clockwise
[8:47:49 AM] PJayTycy: I'm not sure we revealed it from on that hill though
[8:47:51 AM] binTravkin: you get the same situation
[8:48:09 AM] binTravkin: you mean the forest tile
[8:48:16 AM] binTravkin: S-SE?
[8:48:26 AM] binTravkin: from where else could have we revealed it?
[8:48:39 AM] PJayTycy: I don't know
[8:48:48 AM] PJayTycy: but anyway, the situation is not at all the same
[8:49:19 AM] binTravkin: yes, there forest near the desert hill is actually between
[8:49:48 AM] binTravkin: hmm well
[8:49:50 AM] PJayTycy: hill near capital : S, SE, S-SE are all 3 forest tiles. capital is SE-SE
[8:50:11 AM] PJayTycy: sorry, that's S, SE, E-SE
[8:50:34 AM] Impaler: so can we see their 3rd city with the scout, I think we can?
[8:50:45 AM] PJayTycy: the third city is no problem
[8:50:52 AM] binTravkin: yes but we should think log term
[8:50:59 AM] binTravkin: how will me move scout around?
[8:51:01 AM] Impaler: do you think we should do it though?
[8:51:13 AM] binTravkin: we should be having the scout back shortly before invasion
[8:51:19 AM] binTravkin: back near 3rd city
[8:51:25 AM] binTravkin: and then cap
[8:51:38 AM] binTravkin: what route it should go then?
[8:52:43 AM] PJayTycy: now : hill near third city, next turn : near capital, in 2 turns : wander around a bit; in 3 turns : back to capital, in 4 turns : near third city, in 5 turns : move out & declare war
[8:53:16 AM] PJayTycy: oops, that's wrong
[8:53:47 AM] PJayTycy: it's +/- 10 turns till war starts, right ?
[8:54:00 AM] binTravkin: less
[8:54:09 AM] binTravkin: chuko is done next turn
[8:54:13 AM] binTravkin: so 8 turns from next turn
[8:54:15 AM] binTravkin: or 9
[8:54:40 AM] Impaler: do you think they will stand for that, us running a muck through their territory?
[8:54:55 AM] PJayTycy: probably not
[8:55:10 AM] binTravkin: well
[8:55:18 AM] binTravkin: what weill we do then?
[8:55:24 AM] PJayTycy: that's why I agree with impaler to move next to the third city and see what they tell us
[8:55:31 AM] binTravkin: and after that?
[8:55:54 AM] PJayTycy: if they don't like it, we atleast saw their third city, move out peacefull and send an apology
[8:56:07 AM] PJayTycy: if they don't mind, we start wandering around, mapping unseen territory
[8:56:09 AM] binTravkin: they wont write get the hell off I think
[8:56:25 AM] binTravkin: rather get in our territory with warrior
[8:56:36 AM] binTravkin: we could tell them our scout is just moving south
[8:56:41 AM] binTravkin: then get out of their sight
[8:56:45 AM] PJayTycy: well, that's one less defender to worry about I guess?
[8:56:55 AM] binTravkin: and then mysteriously reappear near their cap a few turns later
[8:57:00 AM] binTravkin: what do you think?
[8:57:00 AM] binTravkin: we could tell them our scout is just moving south
[8:57:00 AM] binTravkin: then get out of their sight (as our last scout died unfortunately)
[8:57:00 AM] binTravkin: and then mysteriously reappear near their cap a few turns later
[8:57:44 AM] PJayTycy: we cannot move out of their sight
[8:57:56 AM] PJayTycy: their line of sight is cultural borders + 1
[8:58:23 AM] PJayTycy: which means their second and third city line of sight border each other
[8:59:07 AM] Impaler: no they see everything inside their cultural borders
[9:00:26 AM] binTravkin: well
[9:00:52 AM] binTravkin sent file "scout_plan2.jpg" to members of this chat
[9:00:57 AM] binTravkin: check this
[9:01:14 AM] PJayTycy: anything else which needs to be decidedI'll have to leave this chat in 5 minutes
[9:01:38 AM] binTravkin: we build road Tassa-Xian with that 3rd worker?
[9:01:40 AM] Impaler: thats looks good
[9:01:55 AM] Impaler: or perhaps chop a forest?
[9:02:01 AM] binTravkin: it is I think as it's out of their sight once in forest
[9:02:10 AM] binTravkin: chop where then?
[9:02:31 AM] PJayTycy: the road tass-xian only needs 2 pieces
[9:02:58 AM] PJayTycy: SE-SE starting from xian
[9:03:12 AM] PJayTycy: one of those tiles is W of the current worker location
[9:03:23 AM] binTravkin: 3 for maximum efficiency
[9:03:59 AM] PJayTycy: why??
[9:04:14 AM] binTravkin: where it is, west and then NW
[9:04:19 AM] Impaler: if you have the turn open and we are agreed on the scout movment lets perform that and see if the intel gives us any guidance
[9:04:24 AM] binTravkin: because it would then make the road 4 tiles
[9:04:27 AM] binTravkin: otherwise it's more
[9:04:31 AM] binTravkin: and no river crossing
[9:04:41 AM] binTravkin: ok
[9:05:11 AM] PJayTycy: roading the tile the worker is on now, is useless
[9:05:16 AM] binTravkin: warrior
[9:05:22 AM] binTravkin: why?
[9:05:29 AM] PJayTycy: SE-SE-SE-NE-NE is just as long as SE-SE-E-E-NE
[9:05:58 AM] binTravkin: doesn't it count as river crossing?
[9:07:08 AM] binTravkin: ok, then let's road anyway?
[9:07:50 AM] PJayTycy: I don't think it's a river crossing
[9:08:18 AM] binTravkin sent file "river.jpg" to members of this chat
[9:08:21 AM] Impaler: Tass borders are how far from expadning
[9:08:44 AM] binTravkin: you're correct
[9:08:48 AM] binTravkin: it isn't a crossing
[9:09:00 AM] PJayTycy: so, only 2 tiles needed
[9:09:05 AM] binTravkin: because where now worker stands between the cottage isn't a crossing
[9:09:15 AM] binTravkin: and the situation is the same, just a mirror image
[9:09:22 AM] binTravkin: ok, then road tile W
[9:09:31 AM] binTravkin: we're done then now PJay
[9:09:38 AM] PJayTycy: tassagrad just got +1 culture from religion
[9:09:39 AM] binTravkin: scout revealed warrior
[9:09:47 AM] binTravkin: yes Tassagrad is 9 turns far
[9:09:49 AM] Impaler: so 9 turns to borders
[9:09:52 AM] PJayTycy: yes
[9:10:13 AM] Impaler: we could then chop the Silk forest and cottage the spot for 2 food 3 commerce
[9:10:23 AM] binTravkin: after that?
[9:10:32 AM] binTravkin: after road?
[9:10:41 AM] binTravkin: if so, let's decide it later
[9:10:48 AM] Impaler: humm still a gap of turns that needs to be coverd
[9:10:59 AM] PJayTycy: we can endturn now I guess ?
[9:11:04 AM] Impaler: yea its not urgent
[9:11:11 AM] Impaler: wait what did scout find??
[9:11:14 AM] PJayTycy: no citizens need to be reassigned etc...
[9:11:27 AM] PJayTycy: 2 pop city, guarded by 1 warrior
[9:11:44 AM] Impaler: ah ok
[9:11:50 AM] Impaler: any improvments?
[9:11:56 AM] PJayTycy: none, not even a road
[9:11:59 AM] binTravkin: none in range
[9:12:15 AM] Impaler: so they cant reinforce it quickly
[9:12:19 AM] binTravkin: no way
[9:12:28 AM] binTravkin: best they can do is some chariots
[9:12:34 AM] Impaler: boy thouse Nans are dumb
[9:13:05 AM] PJayTycy: so, see you, will somebody post the log of this turnchat in the thread ?
[9:13:23 AM] Impaler: I'll try
[9:13:42 AM] binTravkin: ok, I endturn then
[9:13:48 AM] binTravkin: agreed?
[9:13:51 AM] PJayTycy: ok
[9:13:54 AM] binTravkin: no diplo offers?
[9:13:55 AM] Impaler: k
[9:14:00 AM] PJayTycy: let our chuks be born
[9:14:23 AM] Impaler: *evil laugh*
[9:15:12 AM] binTravkin: behold
[9:15:16 AM] binTravkin: we're now top5
[9:15:18 AM] binTravkin: 5th place
[9:15:43 AM] Impaler: were on the city screen, wonder thingy
[9:16:51 AM] binTravkin: hooray to imhotep and his kin

[9:17:37 AM] Impaler: brb
[9:17:44 AM] PJayTycy: hourah
[9:18:17 AM] PJayTycy: bye
[9:18:26 AM] PJayTycy: cu later for foreign intelligence

[9:19:59 AM] binTravkin: ok, cya
[9:35:31 AM] binTravkin: impaler?
[9:35:32 AM] binTravkin: you still there?
[9:35:40 AM] Impaler: yea
[9:35:48 AM] binTravkin: we should send two messages
[9:35:55 AM] binTravkin: one to Bananana explaining the scout
[9:35:58 AM] binTravkin: and one to GS
[9:36:05 AM] binTravkin: asking where the answer got stuck
[9:36:27 AM] binTravkin: and when are they gonna explore that little part of river they apparently havent
[9:36:43 AM] binTravkin: because when they do we can sign open borders and start recieving commmerce
[9:36:47 AM] PJayTycy: I think we should have explored that river
[9:36:54 AM] binTravkin: well
[9:37:03 AM] binTravkin: we were not thinking that GS haven't done it
[9:37:07 AM] PJayTycy: it won't help us if GS has that river explored
[9:37:14 AM] binTravkin: but they might be keeping it unexplored intentionally
[9:37:18 AM] binTravkin: it will
[9:37:33 AM] binTravkin: GS needs that river explored + Sailing
[9:37:46 AM] binTravkin: actually they might just lack Sailing for the route
[9:37:56 AM] binTravkin: rather not
[9:38:00 AM] binTravkin: they dont need it
[9:38:03 AM] binTravkin: coz it's land
[9:38:22 AM] binTravkin: you see, to form a trade route the explorers must meet
[9:38:34 AM] binTravkin: say if we explored coast up to the mouth of that river
[9:38:38 AM] binTravkin: we need just Sailing
[9:38:48 AM] binTravkin: and them having explored the river itself
[9:38:53 AM] binTravkin: and we can form the route
[9:38:59 AM] binTravkin: at least that's what blake said
[9:39:05 AM] PJayTycy: Why I think the river is completely explored : => they had a scout down there => most of the river is within their cultural borders
[9:39:24 AM] binTravkin: the requirement could be both sides of river explored
[9:39:37 AM] binTravkin: there's a spot where neither side of river is in their cultural borders too
[9:39:59 AM] binTravkin: and could be left revealed by cultural borders and scouts
[9:40:04 AM] PJayTycy: did you look at the early map GS sent us?
[9:40:13 AM] binTravkin: they ahev it all?
[9:42:06 AM] binTravkin: cant seem to find the picture
[9:43:22 AM] binTravkin: ah, found it
[9:43:40 AM] binTravkin: strange, they must be knowing all of the river
[9:43:46 AM] PJayTycy: they already had the river up to the tundra
[9:43:48 AM] binTravkin: because there was scout at its mouth
[9:43:52 AM] binTravkin: IIRC
[9:44:03 AM] PJayTycy: that's what I'm thinking
[9:44:10 AM] binTravkin: anyone has an idea what's wrong?
[9:44:41 AM] PJayTycy: maybe they need sailing too, for their river to count for us?
[9:44:56 AM] binTravkin: that would be strange
[9:45:01 AM] binTravkin: Bananas dont have Sailing
[9:45:15 AM] PJayTycy: no, but we know all of the river up to their city
[9:45:30 AM] PJayTycy: GS knows the river, but doesn't know they can use it for trade
[9:45:33 AM] Impaler: hey BT would you post a screen shot of the scout and what its seeing?
[9:45:34 AM] PJayTycy: or something like that
[9:45:52 AM] PJayTycy added ForesterSOF to this chat
[9:46:01 AM] Impaler: hello
[9:46:13 AM] PJayTycy: hi
[9:46:29 AM] Impaler: Wyatt, hummm who could that be??*ponders*
[9:46:51 AM] ForesterSOF: hi
[9:47:02 AM] ForesterSOF: just learning this so ....
[9:47:06 AM] binTravkin:

[9:47:24 AM] binTravkin: I checked the turn
[9:47:32 AM] binTravkin: where we found the scout at the mouth
[9:47:36 AM] binTravkin: there's warrior north of it
[9:47:44 AM] binTravkin: so the scout didn't move north in next turn
[9:47:57 AM] binTravkin: and there's exactly one fog tile inbetween
[9:48:06 AM] binTravkin: what the scout could see and the map they sent
[9:48:47 AM] ForesterSOF: just reading now to learn
[9:49:05 AM] binTravkin: strange
[9:49:11 AM] binTravkin: but we have it explored then
[9:49:17 AM] ForesterSOF: I started at a big disadvantage and want to not open my mouth and say things stupid
[9:49:29 AM] binTravkin: hey
[9:49:33 AM] binTravkin: you're being too shy
[9:49:36 AM] PJayTycy: well, the turn is played already actually
[9:49:40 AM] ForesterSOF: It is better to know what is out there
[9:49:45 AM] binTravkin: you did most part of the turns up to now
[9:49:54 AM] binTravkin: and you are resposible for that MC pop

[9:51:00 AM] binTravkin: ok, well, that doesn't really change stuff
[9:51:06 AM] binTravkin: the more people participate the better
[9:51:11 AM] binTravkin: turnchats are fun, imo
[9:51:40 AM] PJayTycy: but only possible if we get the save in the weekend
[9:52:11 AM] ForesterSOF: have to go.
[9:52:20 AM] PJayTycy: till next time
[9:52:36 AM] binTravkin sent file "trade_link_GS.jpg" to members of this chat
[9:52:55 AM] binTravkin: here we can see
[9:53:07 AM] binTravkin: that between the lines
[9:53:17 AM] binTravkin: is the area which GS could have as fog
[9:53:21 AM] binTravkin: but we KNOW it
[9:53:30 AM] binTravkin: the x to west is our scout
[9:53:34 AM] binTravkin: x to south is theirs
[9:53:37 AM] binTravkin: o is warrior
[9:53:40 AM] Impaler: I told Dan he can do a piece on our 3 wonders in the next Poly Cast
[9:53:49 AM] binTravkin: who's dan?
[9:53:59 AM] Impaler: Dan Q
[9:54:00 AM] PJayTycy: good impaler
[9:54:08 AM] binTravkin: ok
[9:54:22 AM] binTravkin: this is turn 850 Bc data btw
[9:54:22 AM] PJayTycy: I guess he'll be interviewing you again then
[9:54:54 AM] binTravkin: team AC having even more popularity, lol!
[9:55:29 AM] binTravkin: so, anyone has any idea why we're not connectedprobably we should ask GS aswell
[9:55:51 AM] Impaler: think they have full guests list but soon I think we could get the whole team on Polycast, for example when we win the game
[9:56:06 AM] binTravkin:

[9:56:09 AM] binTravkin: wait
[9:56:13 AM] binTravkin: I mistaked
[9:56:23 AM] binTravkin: the top line should be 1 tile more north
[9:56:30 AM] binTravkin: which should also explain the lack of trade route
[9:56:49 AM] binTravkin: that river twist has been left unexplored
[9:57:09 AM] binTravkin: more specifically the forest tile on the edge of twist
[9:57:14 AM] Impaler: so theirs a little gap ware the river is not explored, perfect, we just ask them to explore it and then trade with us
[9:57:46 AM] PJayTycy: We should ask them if they maybe didn't explore that part though
[9:58:24 AM] Impaler: yea ask them to see if they can finish it
[9:58:34 AM] PJayTycy: I'm not too fond of telling them "you haven't explored that tile, do it now, so we can trade", and then finding out afterwards there was an other reason we have no trade link
[9:58:55 AM] Impaler: what other reason?
[9:59:00 AM] PJayTycy: I don't know
[9:59:38 AM] Impaler: It would be true if it connects us and they would see it was so when the link is established
[10:00:08 AM] binTravkin: so dont say it so
[10:00:10 AM] binTravkin: say
[10:00:15 AM] Impaler: we will ofcorse hedge our message "we hope this will establish a connection" etc etc
[10:00:44 AM] binTravkin: we have been investigating the causes of lack of trade link between us and we think this tile has not been explored by you causing an interruption in the route.
[10:00:44 AM] Impaler: we are unable to complete the job due to the loss of our scout
[10:00:45 AM] PJayTycy: do you need sailing for trades along a river?
[10:01:03 AM] binTravkin: no
[10:01:05 AM] binTravkin: see Bananas
[10:01:15 AM] PJayTycy: that's because WE explored the river
[10:01:20 AM] binTravkin: no
[10:01:30 AM] binTravkin: we havent explored it up to cap
[10:01:42 AM] PJayTycy: I'm just not sure, due to blake's message in trade routes 101
[10:02:00 AM] PJayTycy: To be honest I'm not exactly sure how it decides when there's a complete trade route between two civs. I know that one civ scouting an unbroken trade path to the other civs capital will do the trick, and under some cases each civ can scout part way. I THINK it's enough for each civ to scout out a trade path to half way, but each civ needs to be able to trade along that path - like even if between both players an unbroken stretch of coast has been scouted, both players will need sailing in order to fully form the trade link.
[10:02:39 AM] binTravkin: yes, we dont have a route explored up to their cap
[10:02:46 AM] binTravkin: cap makes the route complete
[10:02:52 AM] PJayTycy: I understand from that message : if a trade link is formed by a combination of explored area, each civ has to be able to trade along the part they explored
[10:02:58 AM] binTravkin: yes
[10:03:07 AM] binTravkin: it doesn't take anything to be able to trade by a river
[10:03:27 AM] PJayTycy: well, if you're certain, I believe you
[10:03:30 AM] binTravkin: river is essentially a road in this aspect
[10:03:49 AM] Impaler: yes I think your right cause a river will link your own cities right from the start of the game
[10:04:01 AM] binTravkin: and also you to others
[10:04:39 AM] binTravkin: I've had some games where Im on landmass (I like having as much land as possible) and connected by a river with someone
[10:04:52 AM] Impaler: yep same here
[10:05:08 AM] PJayTycy: well, I usually take up sailing very early, so I honestly don't know if rivers work without it
[10:05:49 AM] binTravkin: I could test it before we send anything
[10:06:04 AM] binTravkin: but that we should send Banana a cover up story about the scout its clear
[10:06:32 AM] PJayTycy: not really cover up, just a message so they are not surprised when they open the turn
[10:06:49 AM] binTravkin: well the part about going south is cover up

[10:06:50 AM] PJayTycy: however, once they notice we do not continue our way down south, they'll know we fooled them
[10:07:01 AM] binTravkin: you saw the route I propose?
[10:07:05 AM] PJayTycy: yes
[10:07:08 AM] binTravkin: I think they wont notice
[10:07:16 AM] binTravkin: if they will, it'll be quite late anyways
[10:07:20 AM] Impaler: "Thanks for Open borders were both seeing lots of yummy trade, were also sending another scout southward by the way"
[10:07:50 AM] binTravkin: a bit more elaborate (mention the scout south got killed, so this is a replacement), but it's ok

[10:08:00 AM] Impaler: yea and their the Chucks next turn which will pump up our power score
[10:08:17 AM] PJayTycy: not so much as the techs
[10:08:40 AM] PJayTycy: our power graph is now so high the difference for 1 power point is +/- 4 pixels
[10:08:56 AM] Impaler: yea but I dont expect them to remain ignorant right up to the turn we walk up to their borders
[10:08:58 AM] PJayTycy: that makes it very hard to track the power scores now
[10:09:33 AM] Impaler: humm can we get some screens of the graph data posted on the forum?
[10:09:36 AM] PJayTycy: relatively speaking, those +6 points we'll get from the 2 chucks will be very small relatively
[10:09:52 AM] Impaler: chucks are only 3 power each?
[10:09:56 AM] binTravkin: wasn't it +10?
[10:09:59 AM] binTravkin: 5 each?
[10:10:19 AM] binTravkin: screens in 10 minutes
[10:10:25 AM] PJayTycy: yes, you're right, it's +5 each
[10:11:04 AM] Impaler: yep 5
[10:11:08 AM] PJayTycy: so, it will be the same spike as horeseback riding
[10:11:15 AM] binTravkin:

[10:11:16 AM] Impaler: so +10 power next turn that will be noticable
[10:11:31 AM] binTravkin: as Bananas dont have Archery
[10:11:43 AM] binTravkin: and they need to ask GS if we have HBR
[10:11:43 AM] PJayTycy: I doubt we'll see the +10 next turn already though
[10:11:48 AM] Impaler: regular crossbowman are only 4
[10:12:04 AM] binTravkin: (they dont see it themselves)
[10:12:10 AM] PJayTycy: there's always delay before graphs update
[10:12:15 AM] binTravkin: ..which they probably wont bother to
[10:12:29 AM] Impaler: maybe
[10:12:38 AM] binTravkin: also some stuff needing to be discussed: - Xian could have 1 hammer more if a grassland hill was mined - 2 remaining forests near Beijing could make us almost instabuild GL (164+/200) - we should build a mine for 4th city to speed up its infra builds - a good place for this is right north of the iron mine
[10:13:02 AM] ForesterSOF: but will see the spike
[10:13:49 AM] Impaler: chopping at Bejin sounds good, were going to want to work the sea soon and snagging GL is important
[10:14:07 AM] binTravkin: - 4th city will have 1 forest to chop unless we want to chop the tundra forests too (I find this a very bad idea as lumbermills are the only good improvements in tundra)
[10:14:11 AM] PJayTycy: I'm not too comfortable with chopping all our forests already, especially not for GL. A normal lighthouse will give us good benefits, the great lighthouse is not so usefull right now IMHO
[10:14:27 AM] Impaler: 4th city will work Fish and Wheat and whip everything
[10:14:46 AM] binTravkin: well
[10:15:02 AM] Impaler: +2 trade routes in all coastal cities is minimum +2 commerce in each coastal city
[10:15:04 AM] binTravkin: you still need to achieve some point before you can whip and it's pretty hard with 2 hammers
[10:15:22 AM] binTravkin: I think GL is good
[10:15:40 AM] binTravkin: my thinking is that we should finish it around the time we finish next settler at Beijing
[10:15:47 AM] binTravkin: which should be some 15 turns or so
[10:16:03 AM] binTravkin: with chopping that's easily doable
[10:16:24 AM] Impaler: I would only delay chopping for Organized Religion bonus, any idea how soon we can have Yangism in Beijing?
[10:17:11 AM] Impaler: 30 hammers with +100% modifer is just Iresitable IMO
[10:18:32 AM] Impaler: have we sent the turn yet?
[10:18:49 AM] Impaler: Its ready is it not, we can do some screen grabs later
[10:19:03 AM] binTravkin: we have the turn sent yes
[10:19:20 AM] binTravkin: Im grabbing the screens now
[10:19:55 AM] Impaler: 6 and a half hours, I think our speed is quite nice
[10:19:59 AM] binTravkin: we should be able to have Yangism once we finish 2 chukos at Xian
[10:20:08 AM] binTravkin: yeah, Horde was even quicker
[10:20:13 AM] binTravkin: this turnchat helped a lot
[10:20:27 AM] Impaler: agreed turn chat was excelent
[10:20:34 AM] binTravkin: we could have Yangism in 9 turns in beijing
[10:20:41 AM] binTravkin: if it doesn't spread itself by then
[10:20:51 AM] binTravkin: but we must also switch to it as our religion at some moment
[10:21:01 AM] Impaler: yea a free spread is just gravy, the RNG loves us a lot

[10:21:22 AM] Impaler: yea and that requires 2 turns of anarchy

[10:21:31 AM] binTravkin: 1 turn we'll need anyway
[10:21:36 AM] Impaler: one for state religion one for Civic
[10:21:38 AM] binTravkin: the other we must decide when we do
[10:22:09 AM] binTravkin: we should be switching to Org rel after settler is done
[10:22:17 AM] binTravkin: along with representation to not waste turns
[10:23:05 AM] Impaler: yes representation at the same time but we shouldnt be switching untill theirs some tangible benifit
[10:23:37 AM] binTravkin: I think not disrupting production at another city is a benefit of itself
[10:24:45 AM] Impaler: yes but any hit to the economy should be delayed as long as possible to reduce compounding of turn-advantage cost
[10:25:35 AM] Impaler: so no point in adopting Yangism untill it is in a city that is working on a Building or needs to make a Missionary
[10:26:10 AM] Impaler: Likewise make Civics changes when we can make use of the happiness or Specialist bonus from Rep
[10:26:23 AM] Impaler: we do have an Engineer in Bejing do we not?
[10:27:55 AM] binTravkin: we can make missionaries without Yangism
[10:28:15 AM] binTravkin: no, we dont have engineer atm
[10:28:19 AM] binTravkin: to speed up settler
[10:28:31 AM] binTravkin: we need to reach top pop and then we can think of a specialist again
[10:29:14 AM] binTravkin: which is why we should switch to repre, build lighthouse and use sea to quickly grow to hapiness cap
[10:30:30 AM] binTravkin: have you guys noticed that neither Banans nor GS have Library
[10:30:48 AM] binTravkin: from GS side I think it being quite a poor decision
[10:31:07 AM] binTravkin: that actually means that our real research output is 33 vs their 42
[10:31:14 AM] binTravkin: or 44
[10:31:24 AM] binTravkin: (-2 from upkeep)
[10:33:04 AM] binTravkin: Im preparing the screens
[10:33:17 AM] Impaler: I'm fairly shure they have libraries
[10:35:22 AM] binTravkin: they have none
[10:35:29 AM] Impaler: Oh by the way you should use your Poly Avatar here on Skype, its much nicer then that blank head thing
[10:35:32 AM] binTravkin: no obelisks, no libraries, northing
[10:35:49 AM] binTravkin: their culture is linear - that's where I draw it from
[10:35:54 AM] binTravkin: ok, I'll set it up
[10:36:05 AM] Impaler: humm culture
[10:36:16 AM] Impaler: nanas get more culture each city
[10:36:22 AM] binTravkin: linear anyway
[10:36:33 AM] binTravkin: straight line at angle
[10:36:43 AM] Impaler: GS has grown its borders some point
[10:37:00 AM] binTravkin: well, yes their cap grows
[10:37:27 AM] Impaler: Libraris at +3 should make a sharper incress then monolits
[10:37:35 AM] binTravkin: +2 it is
[10:37:39 AM] binTravkin: but yes
[10:38:23 AM] binTravkin: but they simply have no increase in the rate
[10:38:46 AM] Impaler: humm you may be right then
[10:39:04 AM] Impaler: seems an odd move with their commerce theirs more incentive to make a library
[10:39:20 AM] binTravkin: indeed
[10:39:33 AM] binTravkin: but they're currently building military all the time
[10:40:17 AM] Impaler: yea that Vox war is really draining on them, if not for that they would be way ahead in domestic production
[10:40:29 AM] binTravkin: well
[10:40:33 AM] Impaler: probably another city, more libraries etc etc
[10:40:37 AM] binTravkin: right now theonly thing that makes them strong
[10:40:40 AM] binTravkin: is their workers
[10:40:58 AM] binTravkin: cottages + a couple of mines on silver and even sheep
[10:41:09 AM] binTravkin: if someone goes in and storms there
[10:41:12 AM] binTravkin: they're dead
[10:41:18 AM] binTravkin: as there's no infra to make up for that
[10:41:28 AM] binTravkin: for the loss of improvements I mean
[10:41:33 AM] Impaler: no stength in the cities themselves, its all in the country side
[10:41:41 AM] binTravkin: yes
[10:42:15 AM] Impaler: thats why I want to get down their and pillage them hard
[10:42:44 AM] binTravkin: we just cant get there in time and force, that's the problem in my understandinf
[10:43:23 AM] Impaler: yea its a blessing and a curse, if they were close we couldn't attack bananas without exposing ourselves
[10:43:30 AM] binTravkin: with them having so many 4-power units (axes/spears/skirmishers) there's quite a chance they've fortified on every important resource and can easily cover up quickly
[10:44:17 AM] Impaler: and risk exposing the cities, dosn't sound wise to me
[10:45:08 AM] binTravkin: well, one skirmisher can quite well guard a city
[10:45:28 AM] binTravkin: 3 are almost indefeatable
[10:45:34 AM] binTravkin: with a force of 4-6 units
[10:46:06 AM] Impaler: but their still left with a difficult choice
[10:46:22 AM] Impaler: city or country side, cant protect them both
[10:46:35 AM] binTravkin: that's why they pump units now
[10:46:42 AM] binTravkin: the more the merrier
[10:47:44 AM] Impaler: well how do you think we can crack GS if we cant hit them now, I take it you still favor gifting to Vox and letting them waste their strength on them?
[10:48:50 AM] Impaler: Ironworking + Machinery would let Vox build regular CrossBowmen which would stop most Storm units
[10:49:13 AM] binTravkin: btw
[10:49:15 AM] Impaler: Horse Archers could hit catapults
[10:49:23 AM] binTravkin: we should send that message to Vox at last
[10:49:36 AM] binTravkin: to stop researching or they delay IW transfer
[10:49:38 AM] Impaler: which message?
[10:49:51 AM] binTravkin: yeah, horse archer in a stack is cata-killer
[10:50:21 AM] binTravkin: they'd still need iron tho, for crossbows
[10:50:27 AM] Impaler: yes
[10:50:49 AM] binTravkin: to effectively counter an army of elephants/catapults
[10:50:57 AM] binTravkin: one needs a mix of spears and horse archers
[10:51:10 AM] binTravkin: spears take care of elephants
[10:51:19 AM] binTravkin: horse archers kill catapults with ease
[10:51:51 AM] Impaler: yep thats the best bet, the Crossbowman are gravy and let you go on offense vs ax and swordsman
[10:52:18 AM] binTravkin: but doesn't really help with elephant/catapult which I suspect GS will start doing soon
[10:52:22 AM] Impaler: but they dont have copper for spearman yet
[10:52:29 AM] binTravkin: it does help with lots of spears they must be having though
[10:52:37 AM] binTravkin: copper or iron they need, yes
[10:52:41 AM] Impaler: as soon as they hit construction
[10:52:42 AM] binTravkin: horses they have I take
[10:52:54 AM] Impaler: yes they have said as much
[10:54:41 AM] Impaler: can you save this chat as a log, I cant seem to see how?

**binTravkin** · May 26, 2007, 14:14

One hell long chat.

For those who install skype and notice me/Impaler/PJay so we can invite this log is available in skype as the history of chat.

**binTravkin** · May 26, 2007, 14:21

Updated the intel: http://www.apolyton.com/forums/showt...07#post4859719

**PJayTycy** · May 27, 2007, 08:43

foreign intelligence :

=> gathering storm grew from pop 3 to pop 4 in their second city : +6 points

=> sarantium got +15 points due to +8 land 20 turns ago (when they settled their third city)
=> sarantium also got +13 points due to researching an era-2 tech

**binTravkin** · May 28, 2007, 04:57

=> sarantium got +15 points due to +8 land 20 turns ago (when they settled their third city)

I guess this means the only ones having coastal cities apart us are Mercs (Bananas dont count

) ?

**PJayTycy** · May 29, 2007, 03:07

8 can be coastal too, 9 = not coastal.

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