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  • Next tech at 825 BC

    We'll have to choose our next tech at 825 BC (If Im counting right), so I've made some analysis about our options (from bottom to top in tech tree):


    Compass
    pros:
    - req of Optics (could be of use once we plan some major overseas action - allows Caravels which can find other continents/civs quickly and scout coastline without open borders)
    - harbors (according to blake, they're good only mid-late game as all they do is aid your competition for best trade routes - increase the 'weight' of the city it's built by 50%)

    cons:
    - expensive (588b)


    Theology
    pros:
    - religion (we have one already and we aint spiritual, so the value of additional religion is smaller than for, say, GS)
    - allows to skip CS in run for Liberalism (an unlikely tech route though as CS is valuable enough to research it)

    cons:
    - expensive (>700b*)


    Monarchy
    pros:
    - wineries

    cons:
    - we don't need HR, we have it already
    - the tech is not very expensive (429b), but might too high a price for +1 hapiness (at least for now when need for hapiness is not so urgent as we have possible +4 hapiness from Representation + Judaism)


    CoL
    pros:
    - religion
    - courthouses (we might need them quite soon - once we conquer Bananas)
    - Forbidden Palace (see above)
    - req for CS

    cons:
    - not cheap (500b)


    Currency
    pros:
    - +1 trade route (this should give us additional +5d instantly in commerce: +2 Beijing from GS, +1 all other cities from local commerce; and more as cities grow)
    - can trade for cash (instead of IOUs and 'somewhat' fair deals we'll be able to have totally equal deals - missing beakers paid in cold hard coin)
    - market (not useful in any of our cities atm. a mid-game building)
    - speeds up research of CoL

    cons:
    - expensive (572b*)
    - rewards lessened a bit if we antagonize GS and they cancel trading (tho still it gives +1 in each city as per internal trade)


    Calendar
    pros:
    - we'll be able to use the hapiness resources in our and Banana territory (once we conquer them) - not much of use atm, as we have enough hapiness
    - map centered

    cons:
    - not cheap (500b)


    Drama
    pros:
    - ability to invest in culture
    - theatre (even more use from culture investment)
    - Globe Theatre (probably useful later when we have Beijing made as GPP Farm)
    - req for Philosophy
    - req/speeds up Music research

    cons:
    - none, I mean the cost aint that big (429b), the rewards aren't immediately useful too, tho


    Literature
    pros:
    - cheap(286b)
    - Great Library - there were some plans to build it asap, but Im not sure when they'll come to fruitition with us preparing for war and the marble hookup not being a close term goal
    - National Epic - useful, but probably after the war's done
    - Heroic Epic - could aid our war effort greatly (as much as +20h turn in Xian)
    - req/speeds up Music research


    * - I'll check the values against game as soon as I can.


    As you see, many of the listed is either quite expensive for their rewards, or the rewards are not immediate or at least in close reach.

    I suggest the following as the most viable options (in order of priority):

    CoL or Currency
    Literature

    Code of Laws appears to me as crucial tech if our war effort is at least half as successful as we wish to. The span of our future territory will make us cry for lost cash to upkeep. It also has the nice side effect of a religion, being a prereq to CS and giving access to a wonder that might aid us in war effort (Chichen Itza)

    Currency might give us quite a big immediate benefit (minimum +1 per city once that city exceeds 1 pop), which might be slightly influenced by GS canceling trade if we antagonize them.
    We could also use it as a remedy for upkeep problems we'll have after conquest.

    Literature's reward doesn't belong to short-term plans, but the fact we own it and probably own it for some time, could defer at least some of our opponents from building the Library. Literature is also quite cheap and could be done in 11-12 turns.


    I think we should weigh the prospective benefit of Currency in ducats versus the upkeep amount lost due to us building courthouses and that would be a fair estimate of which tech is better (because while CoL might seem to give a bit more due to religion and wonder, the courthouses must actually be built and they are not cheap).
    Last edited by binTravkin; May 9, 2007, 08:08.
    -- What history has taught us is that people do not learn from history.
    -- Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning.

  • #2
    And here goes my (quite approximate) weighing:

    Upkeep:

    1. Having 7+ cities and 2 medium upkeep civics will elevate our city upkeep by approximate total of 8.
    2. Having such distant cities as Banana cap and second city will have them be at 4-8* upkeep each due to distance.
    That makes up a 20 minimum upkeep estimate once we conquer Bananas, which can be halved by building Courthouses everywhere and further decreased by at least 5d initially by building Forbidden Palace.

    PJay, do you have any idea of the formula used for distance upkeep calculations? That could help a lot.


    Commerce gain from Currency:
    1.Foreign routes - it is unlikely that we'll have more than 2 foreign commerce routes (foreign routes only start from +2d and +2d starts at minimum pop of 4) with GS, which means, we'll have all the foreign commerce we can with GS before Currency.
    2.Domestic routes - the domestic route amount is almost unlimited (each city can trade with each), but it is unlikely we'll get more than +1 per route, which makes us earn +1 * city count from Currency or 7d minimum.



    As seen here, the prospective benefit from CoL is twice as big as from Currency.
    Also, the fact CoL is cheaper, speaks in its favor.

    If we're to use domestic trade routes for additional commerce, Lighthouse will also help quite a lot - we'll have at least 3 coastal cities (2 ours, 1 Banana) which would be boosted by at least +2d each once Lighthouse is done.
    -- What history has taught us is that people do not learn from history.
    -- Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning.

    Comment


    • #3
      Compass
      pros:
      - req of Optics (could be of use once we plan some major overseas action - allows Galleons with their 3 cargo)
      Optics allows Caravals, so we can move explorers and gp and missionaries. Astronomy allows galleons, and is far far in the future. Caravals are more useful to us right now though as they can be used to find the other continent and do some serious tech trading.

      I haven't read your post yet, this just stuck out. I'll comment later.

      Comment


      • #4
        Oh, right, I'll edit that.
        -- What history has taught us is that people do not learn from history.
        -- Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning.

        Comment


        • #5
          It has to be CoL, in addition to your short term points is brings us next to CS for Macemen, which can easily counter war elephants. In addition to cho kos we'll be unstoppable.

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          • #6
            I checked the turn times in-game.

            It's 15 for Currency and 13 for CoL.
            This means that we could finish BOTH before we need Courthouses to build in captured cities.
            Something speaking in favour of finishing first Currency and only then going for CoL is the fact that Currency is an optional prereq for CoL which means, it'll speed up CoL research by some 20%. Also, Currency will add at least +4 to our GNP (we need to boost it asap to catch up with GS), which will allow us to finish CoL even faster.
            I'd say let's go for Currency first, then CoL and we can finish them under 25 turns both, with the added commerce of 3rd city that could even be 20-22 turns!

            Even if we don't get that religion (which I doubt as the only ones needing one and being able to take it are Mercs and their focus lies elsewhere and research is lower than ours), we can have all we need in quite a short time and just when we need it (right before the start of invasion).

            What do you say?
            -- What history has taught us is that people do not learn from history.
            -- Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning.

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            • #7
              the religion would be nice but the prerequisite bonus wins it for me. Currency.

              Comment


              • #8
                Well, as I said, we still have a good chance to get the religion too.

                For that matter we should make all effort to sign open borders with GS for commerce and build that 4th city asap.
                -- What history has taught us is that people do not learn from history.
                -- Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Currency for the above reasons
                  http://www.danasoft.com/sig/scare2140.jpg

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    My choice would be Drama or Literature
                    ...maybe Compass
                    Some people say Great Library is a must, but i'm not sure. it would be good to have marble for it, just to be more efficient.
                    Mart
                    Map creation contest
                    WPC SMAC(X) Democracy Game - Morganities aspire to dominate Planet

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                    • #11
                      Well, I'd say finish Col+Currency, meanwhile build another settler, settle it where we planned to hook up marble, immediately spread religion there and in some 30 turns from now we have marble + Literature (researched after Col) and no problems getting The Library.

                      For now, we need to focus on immediate benefits and especially commerce, as we're falling behind badly in GNP.
                      -- What history has taught us is that people do not learn from history.
                      -- Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        we're falling behind because we need more coastal cities. We're going to have collossus next turn and we'll be making almost no use of it at all for ages. otoh, if we get representation and great library we can have a fantastic research speed with a rubbish GNP, and no one will know how good we are

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                        • #13
                          Colossus is done already

                          Well, in that library vs settlers thing problem is that library is static - it will give us +12 beakers per turn, that's it, while a single settler while being substantially cheaper can net 20+ beakers easily if working sea tiles.

                          I'd even vote for another settler to put on a coastal city asap (plus another to hook up marble for future Library ).
                          -- What history has taught us is that people do not learn from history.
                          -- Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning.

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                          • #14
                            Well we have one city spare to build with. Some combination of galleys, settlers and units to protect settlers might be best? I don't think there's anything else we need more.

                            I guess our new city will be building things to help it grow, lighthouse / granary etc.?

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                            • #15
                              Yes, for some first 15-20 turns I guess - fishing boat, lighthouse, granary, forge, library (to fully harness the commerce potential)
                              -- What history has taught us is that people do not learn from history.
                              -- Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning.

                              Comment

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