1000 Bc

[binTravkin]

1 turn Faster - I can not over stress how much it would suck to lose Oracle by 1 turn, if were going to go for it we go FULLY COMMITTED to leave as little to chance as possible.

Impaler, if at the time we get GE we can build Pyramids, it won't be one turn faster as one turn will be lost on Pyramids.
As there seems to be quite a chance we'll get them (the largest other Wonder built by now is Stonehenge and Vox, Banana, GS can't realistically finish Pyramids before us, don't believe Horde is even trying to), this point becomes secondary if not irrelevant.

3 - Centralized GPP, Prophet points are still points and increase the speed with which we get our second Great Person. Xian will take ages to produce a Great Person because the capitol will keep bumping up the limit faster then the Oracle points will accumulate to a Person. Theirs no way to guarantee what type of person our second is, Engineer will be the most common but Merchant will also be likely and theirs no real downside to throwing Prophet into the mix.

That is correct.

But there's also compelling reason why Xian - we have two things half done at Beijing - we will be delaying them quite a lot.


But all in all, I think you've got me convinced - we should attempt it at Beijing, thus centralizing our wonder and GPP effort.

It's 2 vs 2 votes now.
We need a decisive vote

[binTravkin]

Another mess up on my part - chopping takes 4 turns , which means if we aim for two chops, one will be 1 turn late (as the other forest is accessible by road).

This makes Xian 8 turns, Beijing retaining 6 OR 7 due to ability to whip:

turn	hammers		remark
---------------------------------------------
0	0/150		switch to Oracle
1	7/150		unhapiness expires
2	21/150
3	35/150		workers -> forests
4	49/150
5	63/150
6	77(+35|45*)/150	**
---------------------------------------------

* - 35 without math, 45 with
** - we can whip 3 citizens between 72 and 89 completion

Note the last point - means in any case (even without any whipping!) we'll be able to finish it timely in Beijing - be it 6 or 7 turns, it'll be in time and faster than in other cities.

I'm now completely in favor of Beijing.

[Lacero]

ok with that I'll vote for Beijing. I think the RNG has been kinder to you guys than me in the past, I always get the sucky gp at the end of the game because I built stonehenge or somehting when it seemed like a good idea.

[binTravkin]

I think the RNG has been kinder to you guys than me in the past, I always get the sucky gp at the end of the game because I built stonehenge or somehting when it seemed like a good idea.

I've had this problem too, but it seemed to me it's just because I tend to remember bad things more often than good.

I'll switch to Oracle at Beijing then and send on.

[binTravkin]

Actually I think I've found out a way to finish Oracle sooner:

turn	hammers		remark
---------------------------------------------
0	0/150		switch to Oracle
1	14/150		unhapiness expires
2	33/150
3	52/150
4	71/150		whip
---------------------------------------------

But there's a problem - 71 is 'bugged' whip point and could be prohibited to exploit intentionally.
However, I'm not going to use it intentionally - I just need the highest hammers I can get and that is what it leads to.

It might as well already be fixed, which would be excellent for us.

I'll request clearance from Snoopy.

[binTravkin]

Sent on. If everything goes well, we'll have Oracle in 5 turns!

[PJayTycy]

I leave on skiing holiday this evening. I won't be back till next sunday.

Foreign intelligence is getting harder every turn...

AC : +6 (3rd city pop 2 -> pop 3), +20 (3 techs received in trading) = +26 and definately score-leader
Banana : +6 (1st city pop 3 -> pop 4)
GS : +6 (3rd city pop 1 -> pop 2), +13 (got iron working from us) = +19
Sarantium : +6 (1st city pop 5 -> pop 6)
Mercs : -6 (1st or 2nd city pop 4 -> pop 3)
Vox : +7 (tech discovered)



[edit]I have not yet put these updates in the topped foreign intelligence thread; I have to leave in 15 minutes and definately need to start packing now [/edit]

[binTravkin]

Thanks, PJay, I think there will be more of intelligence soon - Im making up an analysis of current situation here and across the pond.

[N35t0r]

Hello guys! Good to see we're still doing great. Apologies for my lack of presence lately, but I've been working 10-11 hours per day for the past two months.

I'd be in favour of building the Oracle in Xian, not only not to pollute Beijing's GPP pool, but also to set up a prophet-only pool somewhere else. Once we get a religion, we will want to get a GP, and with a 10% or less chance at beijing, we might end up getting 6 or 0. If we build the oracle at Xian, we can then build a monastery, temple, and/or some other prophet wonders and dedicate the city to GP for a while until we pop the prophet, assuring us the shrine whenever we want it.

Also, while extra GP's in beijing will come useful, the opportunity cost, an engineer or merchant, is too big IMHO to risk it...

[N35t0r]

Also, I'm reading some "the rice in the delta doesn't have acces to fresh water" posts... so what? That will only mean it won't get +1 food once we get to Biology... We can still build a farm there...

[binTravkin]

I'd be in favour of building the Oracle in Xian, not only not to pollute Beijing's GPP pool, but also to set up a prophet-only pool somewhere else. Once we get a religion, we will want to get a GP, and with a 10% or less chance at beijing, we might end up getting 6 or 0. If we build the oracle at Xian, we can then build a monastery, temple, and/or some other prophet wonders and dedicate the city to GP for a while until we pop the prophet, assuring us the shrine whenever we want it.

It's a bit late now, but I doubt the prophet city would make sense - it's quite a lot of effort for one shrine and once Beijing gets National Epic, there's almost no way we can pop a GP in other city, especially if we're also going to have Library there.

Also, while extra GP's in beijing will come useful, the opportunity cost, an engineer or merchant, is too big IMHO to risk it...

There wont be any risk. Oracle will be finished on the same turn as GE born and as such it won't have invested any prophet points up to the moment GE will be born, only after that.

Also in Xian finishing Oracle would be 3 turns later, so that's not really an option.


The only thing we hadn't done great and not doing great is Monotheism - due to us being slow @diplomacy we lost one turn on it and with Oracle are gonna lose another as Beijing is tuned for hammer output now.
Let's hope noone else really has interest in it.
If Bananas have - well, lets go kick em!


N35t0r and everyone else reading - be sure to be here in 5 turns when Oracle is finished (hopefully) and GE is born - that will be start of a pretty eventful period.

[N35t0r]

I have been reading every now and then.

And I meant for future great people.

[binTravkin]

Well, we'll need 1 or 2 prophets depending on whether we get Judaism or not.
Also the pollution is likely to be very low.
If we fulfill our initial plan, which is Oracle, Pyramids, Colossus, Lighthouse, Library and National Epic on top of that, we'll have 5 engineer points (+3 from engineer), 4 merchant points, 2 prophet points, 1(?) artist point and 8 scientist points, a total of 20, which makes prophet a 10% possibility.
Add to that later wonders and specialists, and it should be going down even more.

I think the added GPPs are well worth such a small chance

[Impaler[WrG]]

Thats not how Great People probability works, each source of points is equal regardless of quantity of points generated, were going to have 6 wonders and 3 specialists so that 9 sources all together, if they all came online at the same time it would be 11% probability for each slice so that adds up too

22% Engineer
33% Scientist
22% Merchant
11% Artist
11% Prophet

But because the Pyramids, Oracle and engineer will be the first things to contribute followed closely by Collosus and the other things will come later if they even come online before the second Great Person pops were going to be looking at around 55% Engineer, 30% Prophet, 15% Merchant depending on how quickly the other wonders come online and if we run any other specialists (I see now reason not to run scientists and Priests if we have population to spare)

P.S. Nestor please get in touch with me on ICQ at 36404290

[N35t0r]

Also, is there a reason why Xian didn't switch from the grass forest to the (unmined) iron? It would still have grown, and it'd have completed the forge as well.