Turn 140, AD580

[Godel]

Discuss.




Turn 140, AD580

Units



Science 100%

Current (?/turn): Paper (2 turns)

Treasury 0%

Current 310g (-47 g/turn)

Civics HR-Bur-Caste-Dec-Pac
Revolt to slavery

Cities

Eye of the Storm (Size 8)(at health cap)
WF to: 1, 4, 7, 74, 78, 8, 88, 9
Food: (5/turn into worker) 7/34 (~ turns)
Hammers: (13/turn)
Production: Worker done begin settler?

Winestrom (Size 7) (at health cap, poprush - 24 turns)
WF: 2, 7, 4, 6, ???
Food (-2/turn): 15/34 (~ turns)
Hammers: (4/turn)
Production: whip Worker (In queue: Library 69/90 (6 turns))
GPP (0/turn): 40/200

Taz City (Size 6) (poprush - 38 turns)
WF: 1, 14, 4, 88, 2, 3
Food (?/turn): 18/32 (~ turns)
Hammers (6/turn)
Production: whip Worker (In queue: Confucian temple (6 turns))

The Voice (Size 4)
WF: 1, 66, 8, 23
Food (3/turn): 19/28 (3 turns)
Hammers (11/turn)
Production: Barracks (4 turns)

Carnero Tempestas (Size 3)
WF: 1, 8, 8
Food (3/turn): 6/26 (7 turns)
Hammers (7/turn)
Production: Granary 58/60 (1 turns)

Monsoon (Size 1)
WF: 3
Food (3/turn): 6/22 (6 turns)
Hammers (1/turn)
Production: Granary 5/60 (55 turns)


In-game diplomacy
?

Distant events
?

[Godel]

Here is the situation: AC attacked our Spearman with a Maceman in the 'demilitarised' zone. They have 4 CKNs in the screenshot here.

There is at least one Maceman behind them.

Here is the power graph:

[Godel]

Some things to discuss.

(1) Do we defend or abandon Monsoon? We have 3 skirms in Monsoon and an axe nearby. If we upgrade all the skirms to Longbows, we could probably survive the first wave of troops. In the long term, however, it looks difficult to defend. Carnero looks easier since it is surrounded by mountains, plains/grasslands and forests (that can be chopped now). I'd probably support the withdrawal of all troops from Monsoon to consolidate at Carnero.

(2) Tech: I suggest we abandon Paper and begin researching Metal Casting and then Machinery. In the meantime, we can pobably hold off with War Elephants, Longbows and Catapults. The big question then is whether we set 100% of commerce towards research or spend some commerce on upgrading skirms to longbows. All the multipliers favour research, but some longbows will be very useful.

(3) Civics: I had in mind to revolt to Slavery this turn (to whip 2 workers). I still think the workers are needed for chopping forests around Carnero and for getting marble online for HE. Do we stay in Bureacracy or revolt to Serfdom or Vassalage? One idea is to keep Bureacracy for 5 more turns in order to make as much research towards Machinery as possible; meanwhile, build/whip barracks everywhere and time the first wave of freshly built troops with a switch to Vassalage. We have time for this as it will take at least 7 turns before AC troops arrive at Carnero (unless some arrive by boat).

Any disagreement/other ideas/comments welcome.

I will announce our intention to go overtime so that we have time for discussion.

[notyoueither]

Well, not so good.

What you propose sounds OK, Godel.

[Donegeal]

They might just be going for Monsoon, like someone said eariler. Not sure who said it, but they said that AC just might crush a city of ours if we go to far north then make peace.

However, I think we need to make this as costly as possible to AC, even if they have the upper hand. Try to convince them that co-operating is better for both teams in both the short and long term.

(I sound like a broken record!!!)

[vmxa1]

We have no way to know what their plans are, if it is elimination or just to push us off Monsoon. To me it does not matter, war what we have.

That means we have to survive long enough to get to the point that we can punish them. I like the idea of making it expense to push us off of anything.

I do not see how we could make any deals after this, unless we were so strong that they had to toe the mark. If that scenario came to pass, then just eliminate them and make no deals.

IOW it would seem to be a final war, not just a transgression. If they were upset about the location to the point that they DOW us, then they could have said that in plain English and then we could have reacted.

Now we have one one option.

[Godel]

Later tonight I will sit down an restructure the turn reports. We should resume a detailed account of unit location etc. I will also attempt to map out the next 7 turns (which is how long it will take AC troops to reach Carnero if they trudge over by land).

All this will take a bit of time and will be unecessary if we instead decide to hold Monsoon. If there is any one who opposes the idea of abandoning Monsoon, please speak up now!

[Godel]

The other thing I need feedback on is how we invest commerce over the next few turns: (1) use gold for upgrades, (2) beeline research to Machinery or (3) a combination of the two.

I was thinking of immediately upgrading one Skirm in Carnero to a Longbow so that by the time AC troops arrive it will have the 25% fortification bunus. With walls it will then be very difficult to take the city. That way we can give preference to training war elephants and cats, which will be needed if AC decide to pillage our Ivory. That Ivory must be defended until we can build Macemen; even then we will need other troops (Cats and HAs?) to contend with CKNs.

However, against the upgrade is the fact that a CG1 promoted Longbow is nearly as effective without fortification bonus. We can probably get two of these to the city by the time AC troops arrive (at the expense of training more WEs).

[Godel]

Give some feedback on this: I will play it out in about 8 hours.

Turn 140, AD580

Units

I'm grouping units primarily by location. Details about promotions/health of units in square brakets. Details about precise location from city in parentheses (using N,S,E,W,garrison).

@Monsoon
3 Skirms (garrison): abandon city, head to Carnero
Axe (2S): head to Carnero
2 Workers: withdraw to Carnero (north) for forest chopping.

@Carnero
1 Skirm (garrison)
Worker: Road to marble

@Taz
Cat (garrison): Move towards Carnero
Warrior/Spear (2S): Move to Carnero.

@Wines
Skirm[CG1] (garrison): Head to Carnero as soon as garrison is replaced.
Worker: Move to marble

@EotS
Cat, Axe[CR3] (garrison)
Axe (1SW)
Skirm[2/2 exp, unpromoted] (1SW): Attack barb archer at 89% odds? Or promote first?
Worker: head north

@Voice
Skirm (garison)
Spear (iron): move east to fog bust
Skirm (gold mine): fortified for barbs
Spear (SW): Send to Wines
Axe[CR1] (N): move north to fogbust (need to keep barbs clear from marble until HE is built)
Axe[5/5 exp, 1.4/5 health, Combat1, one promo available] (north)
2 Workers: farm, mine

@SouthernFoglands
Axe (deep south): head home
Axe[Comb1] (SW): head home
Scout (S): find fog busting hill


Science 100%

Current (?/turn): Metal Casting (3 turns)
(Paper 455/858)

Treasury 0%

Current 211g (-47 g/turn)

Civics HR-Bur-Caste-Dec-Pac
Revolt to slavery, paganism

Cities

Eye of the Storm (Size 8)(at health cap)
WF to: 1, 4, 7, 74, 78, 8, 88, 9
Food: (5/turn into worker) 7/34 (~ turns)
Hammers: (13/turn)
Production: Worker done. Build orders? War Elephant?

Winestrom (Size 7) (at health cap, poprush - 24 turns)
WF: 2, 7, 4, 6, ???
Food (-2/turn): 15/34 (~ turns)
Hammers: (4/turn)
Production: whip Worker (In queue: Library 69/90 (6 turns))
GPP (0/turn): 40/200

Taz City (Size 6) (poprush - 38 turns)
WF: 1, 14, 4, 88, 2, 3
Food (?/turn): 18/32 (~ turns)
Hammers (6/turn)
Production: whip Worker? Or begin barracks NOW? (In queue: Confucian temple (6 turns))

The Voice (Size 4)
WF: 1, 66, 8, 23
Food (3/turn): 19/28 (3 turns)
Hammers (11/turn)
Production: Barracks (4 turns)

Carnero Tempestas (Size 3)
WF: 1, 8, 8
Food (3/turn): 6/26 (7 turns)
Hammers (7/turn)
Production: Granary 58/60 (1 turns)

Monsoon (Size 1)
WF: High production tile
Food (3/turn): 6/22 (6 turns)
Hammers (1/turn)
Production: Abandon Granary (5/60), build wealth


In-game diplomacy
AC declared war on us.

Distant events
None

[Godel]

After looking at things carefully, we actually need to train decent counterattack troops in the next 3 to 4 turns. We only have 2 catapults at the moment. Ideally another 3-4 war elephants would be good.

But that means we have no time to build barracks before training these troops.

So I ask the question: do we want to adopt Vassalage now? Most of ACs troops are well promoted. We can bank gold and whip whilst in Vassalage and later switch to Bureacracy, set science to 100% and speed towards Machinery.

I will delay playing the save for another 12 hours to give more time for discussion. Please folks, SPEAK UP!

[notyoueither]

I don't have a good sense of the situation, Godel. I also have a large deficit of time at the moment. I will defer to your suggestions.

I agree with abandoning Monsoon.

Experience for our troops, no matter how you can get it, is a very good idea.

[Krill]

Any horses behind us?

[Godel]

RE horses: we have a source of horses south of Wines (outside BFC), but they presently remain unpastured. AC are probably researching towards Guilds for Knights: they have access to horses and iron.

[Godel]

I played everything as detailed above, except we revolted to Vassalage instead of staying in Bureacracy. I have set science to 0% since research multipliers are more effective in Bureaucracy.

Taz whips worker
EotS begins WE.
Upgraded one Skirm to LB in Carnero since we are short on cities and time for producing troops. The early upgrade will get the fortification bonus.

Treasury: 161g, +71 gold per turn.