The Bunch Diplomacy

[snoopy369]

My opinion and interpretation is that you should not discuss Vox unless The Bunch know of Vox. That includes "nameless third civ" discussions.

You can work around that by sharing maps, which you are free to do at any point. That does not give The Bunch contact with Vox (they'd have to walk down to the red area or whatnot to do so), but they'd know of Vox' existence on your continent, and there's no logical reason to prohibit discussing them in that case.

Unfortunately the 'rules' discussion from a few months ago quickly devolved into complaints about 'public posting' and basically nobody talked about the second rule in that listing, except to generally agree with it [the one relevant here]. Thus I can't give you anything other than my interpretation, which at least can be consistently given to every team that asks it

I cannot tell you whether Vox and The Bunch have communication already, as that's up to The Bunch and/or Vox to tell you if/when it is the case, as the potential value to securing that information from your enemies outweighs the benefits of me conveying it. This applies in the reverse as well, I will not convey your contact with Vox and/or the Bunch to the third team.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by notyoueither

Teams should not discuss their relations with a third team that has not contacted one of the teams. May teams discuss having contact with a third team but not mention the team's name?

This seems very problematic. We show up at their door with blood on our weapons. They look behind our warrior and see hordes of soldiers... but we can't tell them we are at war?

You could certainly tell them that you fear for your defense from foreign interests; this is of course why I was unsure about the rule in the first place, and had hoped a few months ago for productive discussion on it...

In any events, the discussion is simple if you show them a portion of your map (I'd ask that it not be something pathetic like a single red square, but you do not have to show the portion with your cities in it or anything. You probably should show them enough to indicate the location of Vox to them, however, which you of course may or may not want to do.)

[snoopy369]

Ignore my earlier concern with telling about contact. I forgot about F4.

[notyoueither]

I don't buy that we have to trade maps to tell the civ we are at war. That is silly. We can't tell them something they don't know until we tell them something else they don't know?

[Blake]

Hummmm.

I agree with NYE. It sounds like a whole lot of silliness.

[notyoueither]

Received from Nana this morning.

NYE & Gathering Storm,
Our tribes' recent contact is being discussed. For now, know that we are a friendly tribe and are glad to hear that you come in peace.

Please send all diplomatic letters to thediplomaticbanana@yahoo.com

Yea Banana!!!!!!!!
-The Diplomatic Banana

That was sent after the save was sent. They had a chance to see graphs.

Please discuss a response.

[Blake]

This message was in the gatheringspam inbox, arrived 14 hours ago.

NYE & Gathering Storm,
Oh yea! and praise be The Great Banana whose name dare not be uttered. Our prophets foretold of a time when our peoples would meet - just a few weeks ago in fact. Some thought you were a left over effect from the last retreat to the mountains where our wise men smoke banana peels to gain insight to the ways of The Mighty Musa. This is why we were flustered at your sudden appearance.

It is obvious by our many cities that these are the Lands of the Banana. How is it that you have come to us? Have you traveled by land, or by sea? Or as your name implies, have you come by way of sky from where the clouds play? Pray tell what kind of tribe you are? Where are your lands and what are you doing in ours - besides trampling our rice? Have you tried the banana-rice pudding? It is to die for.

As a gift I send you the technological wonder known as

"Banana Rice
Pudding"
-------------------

3 cups rice milk or nonfat milk (I prefer the milk of the free range hippolactus)
1 cup short grain rice (splitsville rice please)
3 very ripe bananas, mashed
1/2 tsp nutmeg

Preheat over fire to 350F. Mix all together well and pour into a
1 1/2 qt casserole. Bake in pit for 1 to 1 1/2 hours, stirring
occasionally, until rice is tender. Makes 4 cups.

If you are a near-by neighbor we should discuss the borders of our lands.

Peace & Banana Out!

[Metaliturtle]

Well, my theory that THEY were stalling is out, and I'm guessing that once they saw the graphs they cursed themselves for having such a small military and then were like "Be nice to GS or they will mash us like the we are!"

Good for us because we have leverage.

Wanting to discuss borders quickly further indicates that they are afraid, we should make an outlandish offer and then let them talk us back down to the borders we want.

[DeepO]

ze need to qssure the;. qs the tone of the ;essqge is certqinly defensive<

Crap. Forgot this is qwerty again...

okay, so we need to assure them. The same is happening to them as was happening to us: they see a potentially agressive and large team right next to their borders. So we need to say what we're doing before they take offense.

First of all, we need to acknowledge this is their land, and that we might be interested in a border treaty once we know the lay of the land. Also, we're a bit farther away of them, so let's tell them that. No need to provoke them into mobilisation...

Further, are they acting, or do they really don't have a clue what team we are? That seems hard to believe with the game open. They inforce my opinion that we don't need to jump into long-term alliances just because some team is in a geographical location that suits us.

DeepO

[notyoueither]

How did I miss that message when I checked? I see now, GMail threads exchanges and hid it behind the one I posted.

About a reply. Something about welcoming a chat with them. Borders are something that could be discussed. Other mutually advantageous topics may be brought up, like technology.

[notyoueither]

Is anyone else interested in this? Should I just do it myself?

[Blake]

nye, I trust your ability to negotiate and probe for information.

I think the main topics of discussion are:
Religion, Borders, Tech Trading.

On the topic of religion I would like to ask (condensed into a single paragraph)...

"Do you have plans for religion? We ask because we are currently in a conflict which was aggravated by religion. For an alliance to work - basically we either need for you to have your own religion, or for you to accept our religion - if you are going for a religion, we wont contest it."


On the topic of Tech Trading...

"Are you interested in a tech trading arrangement? We can't really fit Alphabet into our research schedule for the forseeable future, but we are interested in trading if you are willing to research Alphabet."

Side Note: It would be hugely in our benefit if Banana builds the Great Library, keeps it out of the hands of our Philo opponents... we will have marble eventually so might be able to build it ourselves...



On the topic of borders. I say there are hard borders for us at our elephant, and hard borders for them at the Bananas, the in between (Actually only about enough space for 1 city) is what is negotiable. It would be helpful to know how much they actually know of the lay of the land...


I think that Banana could make a very useful pawn for us, but we will need plenty of trust since they won't be able to help but think we'll be thinking "Build wonders so we can conquer them"... because we are. However I think our word is pretty good...

I agree we don't need to commit to an alliance immediately, we need to know first if they have a minimum of competence and are well... willing to be bent to our will...

[notyoueither]

Going to post this to Nana very soon. Anyone around to comment on it? I'm trying to draw them in. Hopefully I don't have to write a novel for every message.

Greetings to the people of the Banana.

We received your last message, but got distracted by cooking. Apologies for the delay in responding.

We see you have many questions. We have some of our own as well and feel that a personal meeting of representatives would be good. Can we arrange a chat?

To answer one of your questions, legend has it that long, long ago a mighty storm laid waste to the world. Water came to cover most of the surface and consume the dry land.

One small group of stout-hearted people were farmers and craftsmen who lived in a valley. One day a stranger came to them and told them of the coming of the water. He bid them move to a distant mountain in order to find safety. He would lead them there so that they might not be lost.

Many of the people listened to the stranger as the storms were already beginning. The stranger led our forebears as he promised. They huddled on the mountain and watched the waters rise, but the stranger had vanished. The people lamented for his loss as most assumed that he had fallen into the rushing, swirling water and been swept away.

When the stranger returned to them as if from nowhere, the people were astonished. As mentioned before the place they were was now surrounded by stormy seas.

After overcoming their shock, and greeting the stranger with joyous celebration the people began to ask what would become of them as the waters were still rising and even the heights of the mountain would surely be submerged. The stranger told them to be calm so that the skies, the land, and the water might reflect their serenity and yield to their will.

After some time, and more than a little coaching by the stranger for the more nervous of the people, the rain began to fall a lttle less, the wind began to lessen a little. Soon the water stopped rising. Then the rain stopped and the winds decreased to a breeze. The people were joyous.

Soon after the storm died away and the clouds parted the people asked the stranger what would happen next. They were standing on the top of a mountain with solid rock all around them and surely no food could be grown there. The stranger told them to be patient and to tend to the small flocks and herds they had been able to bring with them.

The people went about their business of tending to stores and animals that they had managed to save. Many animals were lost and much was ruined by the all pervasive water.

All of a sudden the people were startled by the sound of a great thunder from inside the earth! They gathered near the source of the sound and witnessed the waters of the surrounding seas flooding into a crack in the mountain they were standing on! Slowly, ever so slowly, the water went down. The people could see the side of the mountain split open and thirstily drinking in the water. Some of the people who were too excited got too close and fell in to be consumed by the water and then the mountain. Most remembered the lessons of the stranger, remained calm, and thus they survived.

Eventually the water was almost gone and the land at the foot of the mountain began to emerge. First the tops of hills, and then more and more until a lot of high ground was again dry. The sun shone brightly and without relief by clouds resulting in great heat. At this point the stranger told the people that they had to leave the mountain.

The stranger led the people down from the mountain and onto dry, safe land. He told them to continue in the direction he had brought them. He explained that he had to go back up the mountain and that he would not see them again for a long time. He told the people to keep moving no matter what happened.

The people obeyed the advice of the stranger, as he had been right about so much. They began to venture out onto the plain, barren as it had become from the scouring of the water and now the blistering of the sun. Some of the people grew anxious, but most remembered the lessons of the stranger when reminded. Calmly the people continued to trek in the direction the stranger had bid them.

After some time had passed, there was a great rumbling and shaking of the ground. The people sat down, or laid themselves flat to avoid being thrown about. The people looked back and saw the mountain swaying. They watched as the chasm in the side closed itself up. Then there was a loud crash and a finger of water exploded from the base of the mountain.

The water erupted, and continued to rush forth. The finger of water became an arm and that arm rushed its way down a course in the Earth, pushing land away before it. The rush of water reached the people, but did not expand to consume them. It continued into the distance farther than even the youngest of the people could see.

Older, wiser ones of the people knew that this finger of water was rapidly forming a mightly river. They knew that if they followed it they would eventually come to a spot that would be suitable for the people to make their homes anew amid plenty.

And so it came to pass that the people reached the spot they had come from before the waters rose. They settled and built their homes anew. With time and water the land grew rich again, the flocks found good pasture, and the people were happy that a stranger had arrived to lead them to safety and to teach them many things.

That was many generations ago, but it is said that the stranger assured the people that one day, not very soon, he would visit them again. The people use his lessons well.

That is the story of Stormbringer, and how my people became the People of the Storm.

Regards
nye

[Ennet]

good work

[DeepO]

quite the introduction... I would have said something like "hello, how are you. can we be your friends?"

nye, go right ahead with contacting and chatting with them. You have always been our most permanently available member, which is a good choice for diplo contacts.

DeepO