Turn 8, 3720BC

[Hot Mustard]

Turn 8, 3720BC
(Current Plan)

Units
Grog: Move 8


Science
Current: Mysticism in 1 turns


Cities

Eye of the Storm
Growth: 2 turns
Production: Warrior in 9 turns

[Hot Mustard]

Lions sighted to the left of the hut Grog is heading for:


Demographics:

Whole host of changes here, the most significant of which may be that a rival now has a population of 6000.

Vox has catapulted to first with 51 points.
None of the immediate tech costs have changed (beakers).

[Blake]

Well we have an increase in population and an increase in soldiers (+2000). Vox's score has increased, I believe the growth accounts for that.
Saran's score has also increased so in all probability they just picked up Hunting (they already have mining and nothing else can explain the 2000 soldiers other than 2 teams popping warriors - hammers are too low to have trained any yet). Despite being late founders if they have 10 commerce they should have researched hunting just now. If they are 11 or 12 commerce they should have got it last turn! (ie we'd have seen their score being higher last turn)

I'm going to guess that Saran have a 10 commerce start and chose to go hunting first, for any number of reasons, they want a scout; they have AH resource; they want archers to deter rush.
If they popped hunting (not too likely since they don't have a scout) and are researching something else then it'll probably be next turn or the turn after that they get it.

I would call this good news on the Buddhism front.

My analysis might be flawed or wrong though.

edit:

None of the immediate tech costs have changed (beakers).

No... I don't believe you'll see it like that. The discount is applied as a bonus to beakers.

edit2!
ACK. I think I'm wrong. Because top soldiers is now 8K. Does that mean that Saran picked up a civvy tech and Banana and another team popped warriors?

[Hot Mustard]

My top concern at the moment is whether any of this changes Grog's planned movement?

In my experience animals will not cross cultural boundaries, so the Lion is no threat to our capital, but it is a threat to Grog. Perhaps we should adjust his route to 7-7-8, which would land him on a hill behind a river next turn?

[Hot Mustard]

Turn 8, 3720BC

Units
Grog: Moved 8


Science
Current: Mysticism in 1 turns


Cities

Eye of the Storm
Growth: 2 turns
Production: Warrior in 9 turns

Demographics - see above



Stayed with the plan and moved 8 because 8-7 still puts us on a hill behind a river, depending on where the Lion moves, and being on that hill will reveal more land.

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by dejon

In my experience animals will not cross cultural boundaries, so the Lion is no threat to our capital, but it is a threat to Grog.

You are correct, no animals will go inside a border, only combat units (warrior/archer, etc).

[DeepO]

Originally posted by dejon
but it is a threat to Grog.

Just chiming in (sorry for mostly lurking otherwise, I really can't find the time to be active)

There's a not so well-known mechanic at work, that makes it very unlikely the lion would win in a confrontation against our first warrior. It won't show in the combat calculations either, but should be possible to see in the SDK.

Basically, for the first few battles, barbs (and thus animals) will only get at most 10% of chance to win a battle round. The damage per round stays the same, so badly wounded warriors should still avoid lions, but a full health one has something like 98% chance of winning the battle.

For those interested in the code, look for something like this in the SDK:

	if (pDefender->isBarbarian())
	{
		if (GET_PLAYER(pAttacker->getOwnerINLINE()).getWinsVsBarbs() < GC.getHandicapInfo(GET_PLAYER(pAttacker->getOwnerINLINE()).getHandicapType()).getFreeWinsVsBarbs())
		{
			iDefenderOdds = min(10,iDefenderOdds);
			iAttackerOdds = max(90,iAttackerOdds);
		}
	}

(this comes from a piece of combat calculator that got scrapped, the actual code will differ)

My advice: just move the warrior like nothing happens. Oh, and someone, please take the time to figure out what the .getHandicapType()).getFreeWinsVsBarbs() means for our handicap level.

Cheers, chaps. You're putting up a show worthy of the Gathering Storm tradition :b

DeepO

[DeepO]

Originally posted by vmxa1


You are correct, no animals will go inside a border, only combat units (warrior/archer, etc).

nye, do you know by heart the turn-time when this happens? At first, everyone will stay out of our cultural borders, but I haven't played prince, nor normal speed in ages... I don't know when exactly the barbs start attacking cities.

DeepO

[DeepO]

Originally posted by dejon
None of the immediate tech costs have changed (beakers).

Including on Mysticism? Excellent, that vastly increases our chances for an early religion.

DeepO

[Blake]

As I said, tech costs don't change. Instead there's a beaker/turn bonus (basically a +%age bonus) for researching techs which are discounted.
So we can't see it by looking at the tech costs.

This is easy to test. Start a game on a standard map, found the city, turn on avoid growth, 0% science. Note tech costs and time to research when hover-over. Now spam enter for quite a while, as religions get founded and stuff. Go to the tech screen, the costs will be the same, but some times to research will have fallen.

There are two discount detection mechanisms:
1) Time to research. Tweak the beakers/turn up and down and see if there's a mismatch. Note that you always get +1 phantom beaker so a 10 comm start is actually 11 beakers.
2) Observe beakers added per turn. We've been steady at 11 beakers/turn all game. Mysticism costs 71 beakers, we should complete it at 77 beakers and thus get 6 overflow (it does work this way), if however we get 7 overflow that would mean that other civs had Mysticism for that last turn of research.
There's a problem, the turn you switch to a new tech, it doesn't give a numerical readout of the overflow going onto it, so we can only learn the overflow the next turn, and only if the tech we are researching is guaranteed to not be discounted (which would be the case of any non-fidl religion tech).

[Arrian]

Yeah, the first battle or two we're pretty much guaranteed of winning. Stay on target!

-Arrian