What Rules (Metagame) Do We Play With?

[Paddy]

at the end of the day this is a game... hope your swords and axes are sharp

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Krill
Now, I'll be blunt. If anything resembling the DL incident happens, the game for me will be toast. If an entire team hapened to feel the same way, then I would definately support that teams decision to leave the game, if they chose to do so. Forget a survival contingency plan, I would be more worried about the reprecussions within Apolyton as a whole.

Hmmm...I fail to see the relevence of why this statement is being made here.

Is their a reason that you feel you need to make that statement here? Has something been brought to your attention that we all should know about? Or are you just being blunt in your attempt to open old wounds?

If it is the former, then please bring your knowledge to light immediately. If the latter, then, please, let's move on. That was a different game...and that game is most definately over.

I am really looking forward to playing against you once again Krill...my only request is that you come to this game with a fresh start. It is a time to heal in this community...not to twist knives in old wounds.

[Kloreep]

I can't speak for what Krill intended, but I read his post as a simple response to Rcoutme2, stating that a contingency plan is not needed, as the game will likely end anyway should a situation requiring such a plan arise.

Good rule of thumb: assume good intentions. If I had a dollar for every time that could have prevented a 'net argument...

[Enigma_Nova]

Re: What Rules (Metagame) Do We Play With?

Originally posted by snoopy369
I'm going to leave the suggesting of rules entirely up to you all, as I don't know a lot about exploits at the current patch level.

PM Sent to snoop detailing the one exploit I know of.
Yes, I know an exploit. If you PM me nicely asking to explain what it is and how to figure out if someone on your team is using it, I will explain.

1. Provision for Challenging Rules Violation:

I think the Admins should be able to order reparations and ban and delete without having to consult the individual teams.

2. General Conduct of Players and Teams

[*] Posts should always be constructive, politely worded, and should never be insulting or derogatory to other posters, or other teams-as-people. Derogatory statements about other posters are never okay, regardless of the 'spirit of fun' they may be made in.

I'm going to bet that anyone who actively posts in this game will break this at least once before the game ends.

[*]Finally, this game is intended for all of the players to have fun. It is inevitable that disagreements will occur, and military strife in game will end up stressing the relationships of the players, but in the end, this is a game, and intended to be enjoyable for all involved. While having fun, please keep in mind the sensitivity of others.

So long as you can tell the difference between hurting somebody's fun, and somebody who's already not having fun and just looking for a scapegoat.
Also, don't punish someone for spoiling others' fun until these others say their fun has been spoilt in some way (most likely by PMing you). This is our game with our in-jokes.

---

MZO Demogame Pledge

As the leader and representative of my team, I give you, the other leaders and team members in the game, the following promise:

I, and my team, hereby promise that we will fully abide by the rules and the spirit of the rules in this multi-team democracy game.

We will not play ahead or abuse the game save in any manner. We will not use the game save in any way to view another team's position.

We will not attempt to enter or view any private forums, excepting our own, or shared embassies. We will not fabricate e-mails or other forms of messaging or falsify our identities in any fashion beyond what is necessary to post, submit turns and whatnot.

We agree not to communicate with another team in any meaningful way regarding the game until that team is actually contacted in the game.<--- Not needed since you don't know your start position in Civ 4 until Stoney or CalendarMinimaps, or other similar re-creations providing a teams location in the world, will not be traded until maps can actually be traded in the game.<--- Also not needed as people knew General directions way back in ancient times, and just makes a hassle

We will not engage in any double identity or double log-in activity, nor will we condone it. If we become of aware of such activity, it will be made public to all teams immediately. Any members engaging in such activity will be banned from ALL teams involved in the game. Any information revealed by a double identity player will be made known to the other team involved, and the neutral administrator, and appropriate compensation, as either agreed by the teams, or if agreement is not possible, as determined by the neutral administrator, will be provided.

I agree to create and maintain a current members list in a public area of the forum, if I have the time and deem it a useful investment of my time.

We will do our best to quickly complete our turns and make the save available for the next team prior to the deadline. This deadline is 24 hours per team per turn.Not yet known

In the case of game process issues and disputes, we agree to acknowledge and abide by the ruling of the neutral adminstrator. The neutral administrator for this game will be Octavian X or his designate,Snoopy369 and Aeson who will not be, and will not have been, a member of a team in the game.

In addition, we agree to allow the administrator access to our private forum provided by MZO 'poly for the purpose of acting as game historian.

We agree to never engage in game activities that exploit faults in the game. A list of known explots may be found here.

Furthermore, we will expell anyone from our team who willingly breaks these rules.

There, fixed it up.

[Enigma_Nova]

Re: Re: What Rules (Metagame) Do We Play With?

Originally posted by Dominae
Just to clarify: what do you mean by "consultation"? Do you mean that you will hear everyone's opinion but that your verdict is final, or that there will be some sort of democratic (or other) process?

If 6/8 teams want to, say, replay a turn, will you be obliged to go along with it, or can you veto if you feel it's necessary?

I'd say they have veto power and that they are talking to you because they love you and want to take your opinion into consideration. They're so sweet and caring like that.
/me hugs snoopy369

Originally posted by snoopy369
I, personally, would say that it shouldn't be a case where 6/8 teams necessarily decide things 100%, but that we'd have to have a significant reason to go against such a super-majority; I couldn't imagine any reasonable scenario where i'd want to decide against that sort of agreement.

Poll just in: 6 out of 8 teams approve of the hotness of snoopy369's sister and/or mom.

Originally posted by Aeson
I think it should start (and hopefully end) with rules decided on by general concensus before the game starts, with the mods acting to enforce those rules. Specific rules are best, but general rules could also be decided on.

I agree.

Originally posted by Paddy the Scot
at the end of the day this is a game... hope your swords and axes are sharp

/me points to a Catapult, a Horse Archer and a Crossbowman

[Krill]

Hmmm...I fail to see the relevence of why this statement is being made here.

Is their a reason that you feel you need to make that statement here? Has something been brought to your attention that we all should know about?

As Klo said, it was posted in reply to Rcoutme. I feel the need..yes, I do feel the need, to express my views. And my veiws are as I posted them; that if such an incident happened again, I would expect the game to die. Any body could be the cause, and could belong to any team, and any team could be the injured party.

Or are you just being blunt in your attempt to open old wounds?[/

I am blunt because I am not eloquent. If I was an eloquent speaker, then I would type long essays for each post, instead of the miniscule amount that I do now. I have found that many people do not follow what I write, because it is not written in an orthodox style. Thus I try to write in a simplistic manner that is quite rightly called blunt.

I am really looking forward to playing against you once again Krill...my only request is that you come to this game with a fresh start. It is a time to heal in this community...not to twist knives in old wounds.

I am also looking forward to playing against BOH again. Any actions from the last game are certainly not being held against you, nor are they forming any positive influences in my mind; I am indeed giving you a fresh start. However, this is not the same issue as what would happen if cheating occured in this game.

[Krill]

[q=Chrisius]I dont actually have that sore a spot as you put it but you know very well the pressure that incident put on my team and the rest of the participants of that game, so tell me if you will whether you believe bringing it up at any opportunity by being blunt or insisting people pay attention to you is really that good for the Apolyton community ?[/q]

I understand the presure put on the members of that game, being one myself, even if I don't understand the pressure of being a Horde member. I'll be honest and say now that it was the "straw" that broke the camels back for me. As soon as that issue arose, my fragile willingness to complete that game vanished. I would expect the same to happen here, and I would expect it to happen to several people.

And bringing the issue up at any oppurtunity? The only reason I even replied to the thread has been because BOH members have posted in it, about the very issue that you wish to see dropped.

Well, mate, guess what? You are forgiven, plain and simple. The wound has hopefully healed by now. This game is itself one of the symptoms of the healing, as we all have enough faith in demogames, and eachother, to trust that no-one will cheat. And that is why I am here, ready to play. I trust you all, from BOH, Banana, Merc, Alpha Centurai, Vox, Sarantium and GS.


And to Paddy: The axes will indeed be sharp Good luck, good Sir

[PLATO]

Thank You for your kind words Krill. I guess this is a good time to make a little statement about the last game so everybody will be clear:

1.) The Horde acknowledges that their was a DL in the last game. While the team was as shocked as everybody else at the discovery, we all realize that we, as a team, bear full responsibility for this grevious rules violation. For this, The BOH has, and continues to, offer our deepest apology to the community...and most of all, the players of that game from other teams and the site's administration.

2.)It is the policy of the Horde...and indeed our commitment to this community that cheating(in any form) is totally unacceptable in any type of game on Apolyton. We hereby pledge that all of our gameplay will be of the utmost integrity.

3.)This is a new game. While we will bear the poor taste that is left in the mind's of many, we ask that C3CDG be left where it is...a memory of another time. You have our word that we will be extremely vigilant in ensuring that all members of this team will play this game with integrity.

We are looking toward the future...and a most exciting new era of Civ4 Demogames! And as the Khan has said: "hope your swords and axes are sharp" !! Good Luck to all!

[Enigma_Nova]

Originally posted by Krill
I am blunt because I am not eloquent. If I was an eloquent speaker, then I would type long essays for each post, instead of the miniscule amount that I do now.

I out-blunt you.

as we all have enough faith in demogames, and eachother, to trust that no-one will cheat.

Not I, Krill. People are unpredictable, and with the 100 or so people in this game I wouldn't put cheating past ALL of them.
That's why I sent the PM to Snoopy about the exploit I found, and gave anyone concerned about whether I'd use it myself the ability to PM me and ask for how they could tell.

Originally posted by PLATO
And as the Khan has said: "hope your swords and axes are sharp" !! Good Luck to all!

... Luck?
Good skill to you and your team, sir. Luck has very little to do with this.
/me cheers for the Catapult that beat a City-fied Longbowman then complains of the Anti-Maceman spearman

[Lacero]

It seems that the blue squares displayed to help you choose city sites take into account resources you can't see.
Both ones outside the FoW and ones you haven't researched.

I don't know if this can be turned off for everyone by changing game settings, but if not I think it would be good for it to be clear (in the meta rules) that it's not allowed to be used.

Also, er, whats a DL? Double Login? What exactly is that and why is it bad?

[Enigma_Nova]

Lacero: Everyone who plays worth a damn ignores the blue circles anyway.
A Double-Login is bad for several reasons.
Influencing Polls, Spying on another team, and having a troll war with yourself being the main problems.

[Lacero]

I ignored them until I found out they might tell me where Iron is, now I've turned them off to stop me agonising over them

thanks for the explanation.

[Kloreep]

Originally posted by Enigma_Nova
having a troll war with yourself being the main problems.

This has happened?

[Arrian]

Some specific no-nos that come to mind:

1) No faux war with an ally/friend just so you can gain XP for your troops. This applies also to buying services from the Mercs.

2) No teleportation shenanigans. For instance, say you are fighting a war, and winning. You are attacked by another civ. The bulk of your army is sitting in a recently captured city, far from home. You gift the city to an friend city, and cancel open borders. This would teleport your troops back into your territory (right?) and thus convey tactical advantage. Unless, of course, I'm misunderstanding the game mechanic.

It's covered under a blanket "don't exploit the system" rule/pledge, but I think it's best to have specific examples too. What is to some people a clear exploit can be to others just good play.

...

I like the idea of bringing up anything that feels even remotely fishy to the Mods for their input. That can probably head off a lot of trouble.

-Arrian

[snoopy369]

I'm not sure they'd go straight home, but more likely they'd go to the nearest non-closed-borders-square; but still, not something that should be allowed in any event