Tech Sales Plan

[Impaler[WrG]]

I'm really wanting to get our Tech Sales plan rolling, so I'd like everyone to submit price recommendations for Techs we will sell. Indicate what we should/shouldn't sell and the prices for each. Keep in mind were looking for prices that are 'too good to refuse' while still maximizing our profits.

[binTravkin]

I think we should think up some formula for tech costs.

There was a good idea a while ago about how value of goods deteriorates as more customers get it. Can anyone recall it? I think it could be a good basis for valuing techs.

[Maniac]

Whan the customer is paying too in techs, I wouldn't know a formula. But when the other guy is paying in gold, I simply say:

Gold cost = Tech cost / number of people who already have the tech (after the trade)

[binTravkin]

Yeah, I think something like that was proposed earlier.
I think similar mechanismus should apply to beaker cost, don't you think?

[PJayTycy]

Maniac, there are 2 problems with that rate :

=> No one will want to be the "first" to buy a tech, because it will be a lot cheaper if somebody else is the "first buyer".
=> Even if we get a "first" buyer, they will only buy if they can re-sell it themselves and so we will not sell to others.


Just a fixed rate, without "number of other people that have it" in there, but with a strong "DO NOT RESELL" clause in it.

[binTravkin]

Well, we do not have to disclose how we determine the price.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by binTravkin
Yeah, I think something like that was proposed earlier.
I think similar mechanismus should apply to beaker cost, don't you think?

No beaker cost is different IMO. The reason is that exchange of tech for tech doesn't cost anything for either party. Nothing but benefit. An exchange of gold however is zero-sum: whatever one party receives is deducted from the other's reserves. That's why one gold is worth much more than one beaker in trade deals.

So for tech for tech deals, the rule IMO is simply one beaker = one beaker. Unless perhaps one party would get a really huge benefit from getting a tech a couple turns earlier.

Originally posted by PJayTycy
Maniac, there are 2 problems with that rate :

=> No one will want to be the "first" to buy a tech, because it will be a lot cheaper if somebody else is the "first buyer".
=> Even if we get a "first" buyer, they will only buy if they can re-sell it themselves and so we will not sell to others.


Just a fixed rate, without "number of other people that have it" in there, but with a strong "DO NOT RESELL" clause in it.

Ah yes, sorry, that formula only makes sense with a "free trade for all" clause. If we add a DO NOT RESELL clause, the buyer has to weigh the costs of paying a certain amount of gold versus the cost of researching the tech itself, and as a consequence retaining the ability to sell the tech further themselves.

So perhaps a formula could be:

gold cost = beaker cost / # of teams the buyer knows that haven't yet bought the tech from us

Regarding "no one wants to be the first buyer". Well, the longer they wait with buying, the longer they have to wait to gain the advantages of the tech. We could also always try selling to two civs at the same time (wasn't there a civ who insisted on the right to sell to another?). But of course, the more complex deals becomes, the higher the change in DGs it never goes through.

Of course, all this only counts if we're the only seller. If they're more, the customer just buys at the lowest offered price. Unless we can make a price agreement with the other buyer. But that has never happened before in a DG AFAIK.

[Kataphraktoi]

Didnt we already agree to a TTT treaty-that exchanges would be based in beaker-to-beakers instead of relative tech value?

[binTravkin]

That is what happens when we exchange tech for tech, the problem is tech for gold.

[Kataphraktoi]

We already have the lead in our militaryrace, so the question is does this gold for tech deal allow us to get better\win faster than they get stronger from having the techs.

As for pricing, i would imagine something relative to how much gold\beakers they can generate-as close as possible to being as expensive as researching the tech themselves while still being a better alternative. Perhaps 2 gold\3 beakers.

As mentioned before, "they"(assuming they are communicating) will not want to pay 3 times for the same tech.

[Impaler[WrG]]

The problem is that the other continent has almost nothing tech-wise that we want, but their gold is as good as ours and can essentially be converted into research towards great techs for us by deficit spending. Therefor I argue that selling a large sum of Tech to the teams of the other continent will benefit us a great deal as were going to be in a Tech race with GS (either towards Liberalism or chemistry or something of the sort). To not sell would be to throw away a major advantage we have over GS, they can't trade with ANYONE right now so theirs no outside factors that could advantage them, we CAN exploit our contact with the rest of the world to gain a competitive advantage over them. And full conquest of our continent will practically guarantee our eventual victory, I'd gladly sell off a few techs to ensure that.



Here are the Techs under consideration, most are still lacked by all the other teams

Monarchy 429
CoL 500
Theology 715
Calendar 500
Currency 572
Compass 572
Engineering 1430

We will also add Drama and Music after their done

I'm looking at selling for 60% of raw Tech cost which would be prices of..

Monarchy 250
CoL 300
Theology 430
Calendar 300
Currency 340
Compass 340
Engineering 850

We want them to see this as a Bargain and switch to full gold production to purchase faster then they could research on their own, I'd even be prepared to go down to 50% if necessary. We would announce all prices publicly and state that all such trades are explicitly non-re-tradable. Well also announce that the price list is fixed for 10 turns and prices are subject to reassessment every 10 turns, we wont pull an Apple on people. These prices are independent from out Tech<>Tech Trades which will be negotiated separately on a case per case basis and under the equality doctrine we already established. Purchases require no-negotiation any team on friendly terms with us may send a trade in their turn with the requisite amount and we will accept immediately.

[binTravkin]

While I agree with the reasons you mention Impaler I'd rather have some specific formula like the one proposed above instead of a certain and constant modifier to determine the sell cost.
As has been noted, we also need to take account the inter-team relations whereas Sara and Horde are essentially a single team (I'm inclined to believe Mercs here) and the third team is a tech competitor with us.
Also, when selling for gold it would be good to take into account the actual value of the tech. For example Calendar is quite underrepresented in beaker cost.

[Impaler[WrG]]

Would Someone PLEASE give some feedback on the prices they want to offer, I don't really care what formula we use and in all likelihood we will haggle it out here amounts ourselves without an agreed on price table we cant move forward. If you agree with my numbers say so or offer your own, I want to get this decided by the next turn so we can post it publicly.

[PJayTycy]

I think we can list both options: price with the right to resell/retrade and price without that right.

We can not trade to GS, so that gives us 2.5 "real" tech trade partners : mercs, sara, horde. I don't believe they will ever buy all 3 directly from us, so we assume 2 might.

With that basic idea, I think asking 120% beaker cost in gold with resell and 60% without resell is pretty good. Just take the 60% numbers from Impaler here.

If Mercs think they will be able to sell to Sara and Horde, they will take the 120% options and sell to those teams.

We can add a 180% "30 turn exclusive" option which says we will not trade that tech to any other team either for the next 20 turns.

TECH	beaker cost	"private use only" price	"reseller" price	"30 turn exclusive" price
Monarchy	429	250	500	750
CoL	500	300	600	900
Calendar	500	300	600	900
Currency	572	350	700	1050
Compass	572	350	700	1050
Theology	715	425	850	1275
Engineering	1430	850	1700	2550

In this case we don't have to think about what the others will be most likely to pickup, we can just let them decide.

[Maniac]

For the record, I wouldn't buy at those prices.