800 Bc

[PJayTycy]

turn is played:


mine for tassagrad was finished; moved citizen from silk to that mine (0-4-0 instead of 1-3-1)

moved warrior north towards the 4th city location

moved northern axe towards xian (now on the roaded iron mine)

other axe idles on tile with our road-building worker

worker near being started to chop (it'll take 3 turns and give 36 hammers); as talked about in the strategy thread

scout down south met a healthy barbarian warrior (see screenshot)





midturn save attached...

[PJayTycy]

oh, I didn't end-turn it yet

[PJayTycy]

I noticed a massive tech deal between banana and gs :

banana->gs
meditation, priesthood, fishing, animal husbandry


gs->banana
mathematics, hunting


are any of these techs under embargo by our TTT ?

[ForesterSOF]

With that trade I would try to take out as much and as fast as possible the Bananas.

[Lacero]

I make that 6-7 turns to archery with their current gnp (14ish going by the graph in the score tracking thread). Less if they have a library (no writing though right?)

Not a disaster given we can beat them even with full archer defences, but yeah. quicker is good.
Next turn will be more interesting, to see if any techs that have maths+hunting as reqs are traded / gifted.

[binTravkin]

are any of these techs under embargo by our TTT ?

Nope.
I guess we should make a deal with Vox. How's that sound to you?
The relationship with GS is more or less void anyway - they're quite openly supporting Bananas.

Im quite sure GS will gift Bananas Archery next turn.

It is also clear the Banana warrior is there for a reason - they were warned quite a time ago.

Pjay, don't hit endturn or send on turn yet, we need to decide what to do with our diplomacy now.

- start openly supporting Vox (or once we declare war on Bananas)?
- send GS a message that if they gift Archery, we declare TTT null and void as of that being direct violation of our sphere of influence?
- think about redirecting more production into military?

[binTravkin]

Btw - if our scout survives - that river must be leading up to Vox's capital.
We could establish a trade route and supply them with needed resources.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by binTravkin
- send GS a message that if they gift Archery, we declare TTT null and void as of that being direct violation of our sphere of influence?

I think that'll just have the opposite effect. Earlier they might not have minded us messing with the Bananas as much because they did not see us as a threat, and because they presumable expected they could deal with Vox before that. Now they probably consider us the biggest longterm threat to their safety, and will definitely help the Bananas to oppose us.

[binTravkin]

Well, what worse could happen?
They will gift Archery anyways, if it is as you say.

[-SafaN-]

i wouldn't say anything either: now we must be more wary about banana, they are not as incapable as it seems

i think gs will declare war upon us as soon as we start attacking bananas

don't forget assigning the citizen in beijng i forgot last turn

[binTravkin]

i think gs will declare war upon us as soon as we start attacking bananas

So why not do that first?

I was thinking of betraying GS when they gave us Masonry + Polytheism, but their very friendly stance kinda changed my thoughts - big mistake


Now I propose to send Vox everything we can and forget about GS. A few turns ago Vox still could have used the iron by settling on it, now they need improvement in order to do so

[binTravkin]

How about a little chat sometime today, to decide on the most important matters?

Im online IRC (#ac) for some 15 minutes now.

EDIT: ok I'm off but will be online in a few hours again.

[PJayTycy]

Another point:

=> After we hit endturn, check in the trade screen if we have a trade route to banana/vox/gs. Even without open border agreements, we should be able to see if the text "not connected to trade network" is still in the resource-trading-window. With the banana third city on a river we completely explored, I suspect we might have a trade route to Banana already, even without the road. I also think our trade route to GS will not be finished yet. If the scout survives, he should move north (if we still want a trade route to GS that is).

=> If these techs are not violating TTT, I don't really see such a big problem in that trade. The beaker value banana->gs = 399, gs->banana = 414. It's a pretty even tech, completely within TTT's guidelines. On what grounds would you blame GS / Banana ?

=> Talking about archery, I don't know if it's traded or not. I'll have to double-check this evening.

=> About the banana warrior : I don't think they were warned or something. It's a very logical tile to put a soldier on patrol duty. Wouldn't we have done the same if bananas were stronger than us, just in case ?

=> About diplomacy : we really need to rework / send out those message proposals to banana/vox. Banana's message probably shouldn't talk about the road anymore, just about open borders for trade. Maybe now some of you have changed your mind about signing open borders with Vox and moving our scout into Vox territory (let's hope he survives the barb-attack) ?

=> Something I forgot to mention yesterday evening : I moved our scout up on the hill next to the banana culture (the tile our road is/was supposed to end on). No new tiles were uncovered, no banana units were seen.

=> The citizen in being won't have any effect this turn. It was only in the previous turn where it would have made 1 hammer difference (due to the added hammers from overflow).

=> For the chat, I'll be on skype. I can't connect to IRC from work. Don't expect full attention though, I'm still working too


I don't think anything gameplay-wise must be done for this turn, and while I don't like delaying for diplomacy, I guess it's ok this time.


------------------------
next turn:

=> sailing will be finished, did we decide already what next ?

=> tassagrad / xian : still building a chuk
=> being : still building a settler

=> axe near xian : continue moving towards tass
=> warrior near xian : stay where he is, waiting for settler to arrive

=> worker near being : continue chopping forest

=> worker near tass : go help road-building to banana

=> scout near banana : walk south around banana 2nd city cultural border ?

=> scout near GS : if he survived, heal // walk north towards GS cultural border // continue along the coast // walk towards Vox cultural border ?

[binTravkin]

=> After we hit endturn, check in the trade screen if we have a trade route to banana/vox/gs. Even without open border agreements, we should be able to see if the text "not connected to trade network" is still in the resource-trading-window. With the banana third city on a river we completely explored, I suspect we might have a trade route to Banana already, even without the road. I also think our trade route to GS will not be finished yet. If the scout survives, he should move north (if we still want a trade route to GS that is).

PJay, do you realize there will be no trading between us and GS, neither us and Banana?
That's it. We're on our own, locked out.

=> If these techs are not violating TTT, I don't really see such a big problem in that trade. The beaker value banana->gs = 399, gs->banana = 414. It's a pretty even tech, completely within TTT's guidelines. On what grounds would you blame GS / Banana ?

=> Talking about archery, I don't know if it's traded or not. I'll have to double-check this evening.

Archery can only be traded next turn.
I don't need to blame GS/Banana, I see quite obviously GS has warned Banana quite some turns ago (see warrior running West) and they are now boosting Banana, which is a violence of our sphere of interest.
I just don't see us locking out Vox of trade when Bananas get full benefit.
We're voluntarily giving GS an edge.

=> About diplomacy : we really need to rework / send out those message proposals to banana/vox. Banana's message probably shouldn't talk about the road anymore, just about open borders for trade. Maybe now some of you have changed your mind about signing open borders with Vox and moving our scout into Vox territory (let's hope he survives the barb-attack) ?

Bananas are up for war, I doubt they will even answer to it.
Do we really have any use of sending it?
If Bananas cooperate with GS now, GS might hint them to move that warrior into our territory.

=> sailing will be finished, did we decide already what next ?

Currency

=> scout near GS : if he survived, heal // walk north towards GS cultural border // continue along the coast // walk towards Vox cultural border ?

Walk north the Vox river in hope in establishing a trade route.

[Lacero]

PJay, do you realize there will be no trading between us and GS, neither us and Banana?
That's it. We're on our own, locked out.

Maybe, maybe not. That fact they haven't replied kinda forces our hand though. I don't like the idea of revealing the Vox help now but waiting for GS/Banana's to reply can only hurt us now.

The trade is perfectly fine PJ, I agree, but the lack of communication means we're on our own with Vox. We just can't take the risk that they're leading us on anymore.

About doing currency next, given the change in situation getting engineering for cats might be a better choice? If we're planning on killing GS off we'll need them, the question is whether we can get them in time by doing Currency / CoL first to boost GNP.